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'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

ft.com

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Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#51

Post by trenchpilgrim »

embedding-shape wrote: post #32
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are those "digital currencies" not using cryptography? If so, they're a cryptocurrency, regardless how centralized or not they are. By this logic buying something on Amazon in USD, or doing a bank transfer from a Wells Fargo account to a Bank of America account, or paying a water bill is using a cryptocurrency hahaha

Is that really the basis of those transfers, or something that they're using? This is why it's kind of tiresome to even mention cryptocurrencies/blockchain, all the "assume good intentions" and "answer charitable" suddenly flies out the window. Why is it that some topics just triggers some raw emotional feelings in people?

Yes, when I worked with moving money between businesses and banks decades ago, we used public key crypto as part of the system for sharing ledgers and running transactions. Banks aren't stupid, any technology that can actually reduce fraud by more than the cost of using the system gets quickly adopted.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#52

Post by calmworm »

embedding-shape wrote: post #27
calmworm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you get hate for it, because you are promoting cryptocurrency and conflating it with blockchain?

Because any time you mention cryptocurrencies and/or blockchain, you end up with a ton of replies that either argues completely different points, or misunderstand how things work, especially on HN. Your reply is a good example. I said "I'm not arguing that things will be better with cryptocurrencies" and you say "because you are promoting cryptocurrency". I'm sure some people like this way of conversing, but for me i…

The point is accuracy, clarity, and not muddying concepts. You can acknowledge the benefits of blockchain as an immutable ledger without bringing cryptocurrency into it. I don’t care either way, but saying you’ll “get hate” signals you knew the post was inaccurate or provocative - on a possibly throwaway account…

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#53

Post by ghaff »

maxerickson wrote: post #43
ghaff wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costs differ by location. Formal per diems, even with some attempt to adjust, end up screwing employees who are in higher cost locations (and/or have higher standards). Which may be fine--or not. But, to the degree that fraud becomes a real issue, it may be the simplest thing to do.

Shorting someone who is getting funds for lunch by a couple bucks is not in fact "screwing them".

Perhaps. But I also have standards for both accommodations and meals that I never pushed too hard on but may be different from those you have. If work travel is consistently costing me a lot of money, I'm going to have an issue.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#54

Post by abejfehr »

embedding-shape wrote: post #11
spankalee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The much more easy thing is that they reimburse you only for what you charge to the company card. This is much more feasible now than it was even 10 years ago.

How much does it cost a business to manage say 10K company cards, maybe even globally? Sounds like a huge hassle, compared to "Send us a photo of your lunch receipt each day then at the end of the month we reimburse you".

Not very much when there are products like this: https://floatfinancial.com/blog/virtual-credit-cards-canada/

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#55

Post by embedding-shape »

calmworm wrote: post #52
embedding-shape wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because any time you mention cryptocurrencies and/or blockchain, you end up with a ton of replies that either argues completely different points, or misunderstand how things work, especially on HN. Your reply is a good example. I said "I'm not arguing that things will be better with cryptocurrencies" and you say "because you are promoting cryptocurrency". I'm sure some people like this way of conversing, but for me i…

The point is accuracy, clarity, and not muddying concepts. You can acknowledge the benefits of blockchain as an immutable ledger without bringing cryptocurrency into it. I don’t care either way, but saying you’ll “get hate” signals you knew the post was inaccurate or provocative - on a possibly throwaway account…

> You can acknowledge the benefits of blockchain as an immutable ledger

For me that's not a benefit, where are you getting that I've said so from?

The only thing I said was that I understand why'd companies/governments would try to force cryptocurrencies on people, even though I personally wouldn't like that.

> but saying you’ll “get hate” signals you knew the post was inaccurate or provocative

I'm said that because I've been around on HN for more than a decade and know there are people just waiting to jump on anything where cryptocurrencies OR blockchain is mentioned, and they usually try to argue against points no one makes. If you've been around HN for a long time, you know this to be true too, it isn't exactly a secret.

> on a possibly throwaway account

Just a new account from a member who initially signed up around 2008 sometime :) Obviously not a throwaway account if you go through my comments, I've been using it exclusively since I switched.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#56

Post by embedding-shape »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #51
embedding-shape wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the basis of those transfers, or something that they're using? This is why it's kind of tiresome to even mention cryptocurrencies/blockchain, all the "assume good intentions" and "answer charitable" suddenly flies out the window. Why is it that some topics just triggers some raw emotional feelings in people?

Yes, when I worked with moving money between businesses and banks decades ago, we used public key crypto as part of the system for sharing ledgers and running transactions. Banks aren't stupid, any technology that can actually reduce fraud by more than the cost of using the system gets quickly adopted.

Yeah, of course, why wouldn't they? No one claimed otherwise.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#57

Post by naijaboiler »

embedding-shape wrote: post #40
unlikelytomato wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, companies will just go back to corporate cards with very strict vendor rules. When vendor rules are not enough, they will go back to extremely tight per diem and simply not care of the expense was strictly real or not. I can't see any advantage to using a whole new currency and exchange that every vendor in the world is now going to have to support for this to be useful vs these simple measures.

> these simple measures I'm not sure either, it's mostly a guess I guess, more than a prediction. But if companies/governments can get more tracking, usually that's the way they move. So if the companies that are complaining in the article implements your simple measures, does that mean the fraud problem they're talking about have been solved already? That begs the question, why aren't they just doing that then?

Not solved but constrained. If I post you per diem. I no longer have to worry about if what you spend it on is legit or not

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#58

Post by calmworm »

embedding-shape wrote: post #55
calmworm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is accuracy, clarity, and not muddying concepts. You can acknowledge the benefits of blockchain as an immutable ledger without bringing cryptocurrency into it. I don’t care either way, but saying you’ll “get hate” signals you knew the post was inaccurate or provocative - on a possibly throwaway account…

> You can acknowledge the benefits of blockchain as an immutable ledger For me that's not a benefit, where are you getting that I've said so from? The only thing I said was that I understand why'd companies/governments would try to force cryptocurrencies on people, even though I personally wouldn't like that. > but saying you’ll “get hate” signals you knew the post was inaccurate or provocative I'm said that because…

> For me that's not a benefit, where are you getting that I've said so from?

You mentioned expense tracking. A benefit of blockchain as far as the corporations or government would be concerned - not you personally. No worries. :)

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#59

Post by embedding-shape »

naijaboiler wrote: post #57
embedding-shape wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these simple measures I'm not sure either, it's mostly a guess I guess, more than a prediction. But if companies/governments can get more tracking, usually that's the way they move. So if the companies that are complaining in the article implements your simple measures, does that mean the fraud problem they're talking about have been solved already? That begs the question, why aren't they just doing that then?

Not solved but constrained. If I post you per diem. I no longer have to worry about if what you spend it on is legit or not

The problem isn't "spending above/below per diem" as I understand the article. The problem is that whatever spending is happening, might be fake, that's why they're complaining about "faking expense receipts".

So it does seem like the companies themselves do worry about if what you spend it on is legit or not, it's almost the entire purpose of the article unless I misunderstand something?

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#60

Post by woleium »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #9

We are not ready for the image and video fraud that is happening now and very much is coming. I can see why governments are starting to push for government issued ID to pervade into everything because its going to require a large amount of tracking to counter all the fakes. Rather than tracking everything a move to a usable trust and verifiable signature system is preferable from a piracy point of view and would stil…

payment by stablecoin would prevent this
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