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The Hustler's MBA

tynan.com

51–60 of 74 posts

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#51
post #36

He lost me at the part where the secret to life is becoming a professional poker player. Because in a highly competitive game of chance you're pretty much guaranteed to come out on top to the tune of $50-60 an hour... Does this post strike anyone as completely f'ing delusional? Perhaps applicable to the author, one of the greatest card sharks alive today, but seems silly to the vast majority.

If the article had suggested roulette or even blackjack, _that_ would be delusional. The house always wins. Poker, however, is not especially delusional. It is unlike other casino games in that you're not playing against the house, so the odds are not stacked against you. Obviously there is luck involved but if you play with discipline over a long enough period of time you can beat the fluctuations. Really, all you h…

Actually perfect play blackjack is something like 50.1% in favour of the player. If you play long enough and perfectly enough you'll come out on top.

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#52
post #21

He lost me at the part where the secret to life is becoming a professional poker player. Because in a highly competitive game of chance you're pretty much guaranteed to come out on top to the tune of $50-60 an hour... Does this post strike anyone as completely f'ing delusional? Perhaps applicable to the author, one of the greatest card sharks alive today, but seems silly to the vast majority.

As a "retired" professional poker player, I can say with certainty that this is possible, but the range is more like $20-40/hour. During that first year, the person must commit themselves to rigorous training and get themselves in a mindset of continual learning. I've taught more than 20 people how to play Poker and you can usually tell within a couple days what their biggest weaknesses are going to be. Within two we…

I also had a period where I played "professionally" part-time. In the current environment, I'd say this is the correct earn rate for your average dedicated player.

However, most people will never become dedicated -- poker is an amazing lesson in cognitive biases. There are quite a few counter intuitive lessons of the game, that if left unaddressed, will severely hamper your winrate. I've also noticed a lot of people who develop incorrect 'pet theories' about the game that they refuse to either let go of or take any effort to empirically prove/disprove. The list goes on and on, but learning poker will do wonders for developing vital cognitive skills like outcome independence, patience and character judgement.

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#53
If one is disciplined enough to go for 4 years following a rigorous schedule, sure go for it. I doubt most people could follow this program for 4 years. It took me 8 years to get through college (those 9 am classes were too damn early...), and I had no idea what I was going to eventually do. Many people entering college are not highly motivated, and certainly not motivated with the iron will required to play winning poker.

The states letting state universities set the price of tuition up to ludicrous level seems to be the main issue with debt. At a reasonable state college, a 4 year degree 20 years ago for tuition would have cost less than 2k/year (I think I have some receipts for $800-900 from 92 or 93 for a full semester, 13-18 credit hours at the time).

It is now about 2700/semester or 3x the price 20 years ago. Actually I guess 2700/semester is still not too bad, at full price for 4 years, that's a little over 20k.

While going to Stanford or somewhere and getting a CS degree might pay off, you don't actually have to go to freaking ivy league schools if you don't have the money or want the debt. If you are in the humanities or something where your future is probably a lower paying job, then a state school is probably the way to go. 20-30k in debt is still a bit painful, but that's a 4 year degree for the prices of a semester at some colleges.

Poker, btw, is a game of statistics, not chance. Since you can change your bet when the odds change, ie: betting more when the odds favor a bet, or folding when they do not. Craps, Roulette, and most other casino games are all games of chance, where the odds are not in your favor at any time. Craps can give you the best odds of a normal casino game, but every dollar you bet at craps is returning at best ~$.99 over the long run. I used to play craps until I read all the odds and now all I can see is the negative numbers everytime the dice rolls. Poker is pretty much the only casino game I enjoy playing, because skill can effect your outcome. However, I don't have the years or bankroll to be a professional at it, and haven't played in a few years now.

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the article had suggested roulette or even blackjack, _that_ would be delusional. The house always wins. Poker, however, is not especially delusional. It is unlike other casino games in that you're not playing against the house, so the odds are not stacked against you. Obviously there is luck involved but if you play with discipline over a long enough period of time you can beat the fluctuations. Really, all you h…

Actually perfect play blackjack is something like 50.1% in favour of the player. If you play long enough and perfectly enough you'll come out on top.

I think it's closer to 49.5% in favor of the player, but counting cards is an attainable skill and will push your edge a bit above zero.

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#55

He lost me at the part where the secret to life is becoming a professional poker player. Because in a highly competitive game of chance you're pretty much guaranteed to come out on top to the tune of $50-60 an hour... Does this post strike anyone as completely f'ing delusional? Perhaps applicable to the author, one of the greatest card sharks alive today, but seems silly to the vast majority.

I thought the poker thing was strange ... but he didn't fully lose me until the SECOND time he suggested becoming a pickup artist. Ugh.

Between my 2nd and 3rd years at Uni, a friend an I got into pickup. We watched videos, read books then went out in the evenings to practice. Pickings were slim since Bath becomes a ghost town during Summer, but we persevered.

I was pretty good with women beforehand, and certainly got better afterwards, but at a certain point during our training, my focus shifted from pickup to something more akin to 'reading, understanding and influencing people better'.

I think that's what pickup is really about: improving how you interact with people in general.

So yeah, some people will hate it for a number of reasons and that's ok. There are other ways to work on people skills. But pickup has a little additional incentive for you to work harder..

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#56
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually perfect play blackjack is something like 50.1% in favour of the player. If you play long enough and perfectly enough you'll come out on top.

I think it's closer to 49.5% in favor of the player, but counting cards is an attainable skill and will push your edge a bit above zero.

I was counting card counting as part of "perfect play"

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#57
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make the point that playing poker is a crazy idea to rely upon and then go and say all you need to do is "create a product/service that creates recurring monthly income" How is that any easier or reliable?

If you commit yourself to playing poker 40+ hours a week, to improve your skills, get to a point where you are making $40-60 an hour, and do that as a full time job for a few years you can make money. What happens on a downswing? If you run into a string of bad luck and bad beats? You can be a great player and go for months without making money. Worse, let's say that you do this for two years. At the end of that two…

> "There might be some tangential skills like reading people, staying calm under pressure, etc."

His poker argument actually started there, and I think this was the more important point. It's stuff like reading people, staying calm under pressure, evaluating probabilities, recognizing the important factors out of hundreds, and making good decisions that make poker valuable even if you don't make it into a career.

The point about making it into a career was, IMO, a distraction from the more important point about the life skills acquired from learning the game.

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#58
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make the point that playing poker is a crazy idea to rely upon and then go and say all you need to do is "create a product/service that creates recurring monthly income" How is that any easier or reliable?

For what it's worth, that's what this site is, well, used to be about. I can't answer to "easier" but if you stick with it, it's a pretty reliable outcome. 13rules' comment got me rather nostalgic about the kind of content and comments we used to see around here. And before anyone nitpicks, this account is only ~3 years old, but I had another for two years prior. Anyway, I welcome comments like 13rules'.

Thanks. Much appreciated!

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#59

He lost me at the part where the secret to life is becoming a professional poker player. Because in a highly competitive game of chance you're pretty much guaranteed to come out on top to the tune of $50-60 an hour... Does this post strike anyone as completely f'ing delusional? Perhaps applicable to the author, one of the greatest card sharks alive today, but seems silly to the vast majority.

Let's break it down: 1. The author proposes to replace college by "a modern curriculum that, on average, will produce people better prepared for real life than college". 2. This curriculum "can be funded initially with $5000 for poker". 3. This is because after the first dedicated year of learning poker, "you'll be able to make between $45-60 per hour for the rest of your life". 4. If you follow this plan, your "chan…

Here's the full context of the 90% statement:

"There's no guarantee, but I see people work pretty hard at school, and if that same effort were put towards the Hustler's MBA, I thnk the chance of being self-sufficient and prepared for "real life" is about 90%. I'd estimate that non-laywer/doctor college is somewhere around 50-70%. So, like anything, this plan is not totally foolproof, but I think it's a lot better and cheaper than the alternative."

I don't know what kind of experiences you've had with random college graduates and their level of preparation for real life, but I think he's being generous at 50-70%.

I'd certainly be more interested in talking to someone who had the initiative to follow his plan (poker, reading, starting a business, good health, etc.) for 4 years, versus someone who just graduated with a bachelor's in a randomly selected discipline and had no real life experience.

Also, I don't know if you've ever actually played poker seriously for a long period of time, but the reality is that if you're relatively intelligent, have self control, and are disciplined enough to constantly learn new things, you are truly a shark swimming with goldfish. The average person at a poker table in most casinos has no idea what they're doing. There is a reason that professional poker players exist. It is not purely a game of chance, although there is chance involved. Kind of like startups :)

Re: The Hustler's MBA

#60
post #53

If one is disciplined enough to go for 4 years following a rigorous schedule, sure go for it. I doubt most people could follow this program for 4 years. It took me 8 years to get through college (those 9 am classes were too damn early...), and I had no idea what I was going to eventually do. Many people entering college are not highly motivated, and certainly not motivated with the iron will required to play winning…

"While going to Stanford or somewhere and getting a CS degree might pay off, you don't actually have to go to freaking ivy league schools if you don't have the money or want the debt."

The idea that one has to go into debt to go to a top-level school is an outdated one. Every fancy school I got into was cheaper than the University of Texas after financial aid.

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