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Roc Camera

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Re: Roc Camera

#51

Post by [deleted] »

vlmutolo wrote: post #8

I wonder how this compares to similar initiatives by e.g. Sony [0] and Leica [1]. [0]: https://authenticity.sony.net/camera/en-us/ [1]: https://petapixel.com/2023/10/26/leica-m11-p-review-as-authe...

[deleted]

Re: Roc Camera

#52

Post by ares623 »

I don’t know what this gives that a film camera with slide film loaded doesn’t.

Both cameras still allow “staging” a scene and taking a shot of that. Both cameras will both say that the scene was shot in the physical world, but that’s it.

I would argue that slide film is more “verifiable” in the ways that matter: easier to explain to laypeople how slide film works, and it’s them that you want to convince.

If I was a film or camera manufacturer I would try and go for this angle in marketing.

Re: Roc Camera

#55

Post by geor9e »

alberth wrote: post #54

How does this differ from a kids digital camera that costs only 1/10th the cost. Not trolling. Genuinely don’t understand. https://www.amazon.com/Camera-Digital-Toddler-Christmas-Birt...

There is a movement to cryptographically sign images in order to prove that they are real raw photographs, by selling hardware in which the cryptographic key is placed close to the camera sensor to prevent tampering.

This is one attempt.

Re: Roc Camera

#56

Post by keyle »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #45
keyle wrote: post #9

This is rather expensive for what looks like a home 3D printed toy with some cute software. Other than that it's a 16MP Sony CMOS, I'd expect a pretty noisy picture... How do I get my photos off the camera? Coming soon. We're working on export functionality to get your photos off the camera. It would be more interesting if the software was open source.

> This is rather expensive for what looks like a home 3D printed toy with some cute software. This attitude really rubs me the wrong way, especially on a site called Hacker News. I think we absolutely should be supporting projects like this (if you think they're worth supporting), else all we're left with is giant corporation monoculture. Hardware startups are incredibly difficult, and by their nature new hardware pr…

Hey it's fine to make a 3d printed camera and cool stuff like that. But it's another thing to make it a product, that isn't shipping yet and asking $399 with a shiny website and with closed source software.

I don't mean to disregard the technical feat, but I question the intent.

Re: Roc Camera

#57

Post by geor9e »

ares623 wrote: post #52

I don’t know what this gives that a film camera with slide film loaded doesn’t. Both cameras still allow “staging” a scene and taking a shot of that. Both cameras will both say that the scene was shot in the physical world, but that’s it. I would argue that slide film is more “verifiable” in the ways that matter: easier to explain to laypeople how slide film works, and it’s them that you want to convince. If I was a…

Can't find slide printing services easily put AI images onto slide film for you?

I think the point of this movement toward cryptographically signing image sensors is so people can confidently prove images are real on the internet in a momentary click, without having to get hold of the physical original and hiring a forensic lab to analyze it.

Re: Roc Camera

#58

Post by echelon »

modeless wrote: post #31

Seems to me that a camera like this is necessarily, at least in part, a closed system that blocks you from controlling the software or hardware on the device you supposedly own. It's hard for me to think this is a good direction. And as others have pointed out, it can't prevent attacks through the analog hole, e.g. photographing a display. It's not feasible or desirable for our hardware devices to verify the informat…

This feels like pearl clutching.

We do not need "proof". We lived without it, and we'll live without it again.

I grew up before broadband - we survived without photographing every moment, too. It was actually kind of nice. Social media is the real fluke of our era, not image generation.

And hypothetically if these cryptographic "non-AI really super serious real" verification systems do become in vogue, what happens if quantum supremacy beats crypto? What then?

You don't even need to beat all of crypto. Just beat the signing algorithm. I'm sure it's going to happen all the time with such systems, then none of the data can be "trusted" anyway.

I'm stretching a bit here, but this feels like "NFTs for life's moments". Designed just to appease the haters.

You aren't going to need this stuff. Life will continue.

Re: Roc Camera

#59

Post by troupo »

So it's a Raspberry Pi attaching a ZK Proof to an image to say that this image was taken on this particular Raspberry Pi.

That's it. That's the verification?

So what happens when I use a Raspberry Pi to attach a ZK proof to an AI- generated image?

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