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Meeting A Troll

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Re: Meeting A Troll

#51

Post by SoftwareMaven »

unreal37 wrote: post #44

Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense "justice" nor in the end was the smart choice. There's something psychotic about harassing someone you know for YEARS, anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level…

I can't imagine that, as part of the deal, updates proving that counseling is happening aren't a part of the story. I agree with you that I wouldn't let it go without having some knowledge that he is getting the help he obviously needs.

I wouldn't want to ruin a 17-year-old's life, either, but I wouldn't hesitate for a moment if I felt my family was in any danger. We don't know the relationship between the OP and his friend that might mitigate the "any danger" part.

On the other hand, kids' lives are ruined in the US (and possibly other countries; I don't have enough experience to know) on a regular basis because we want to have "justice" at all costs. Justice is important, but so is mercy. Mercy (NOT rolling over!) is, ultimately, what will progress society.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#52

Post by SoftwareMaven »

drhayes9 wrote: post #17

My wife and I just had a baby and it has made me realize that I would burn the world to cinders in defense of my family. I have no idea how this guy reached through the fire and shook this kid's hand. Wow.

It is an amazing experience to learn that there is somebody who is more important to you than you, isn't it? Whatever combination of biology, psychology and sociology that brings that about, it is something to experience!

Re: Meeting A Troll

#53

Post by ary »

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do.

There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the OP he should have taken legal action and had the youth examined by a credible mental health professional if only as a favor to others.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#54

Post by SoftwareMaven »

citricsquid wrote: post #36
zxcdw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go…

Trolling is short term, it's fucking with someone for the sake of fucking with someone , anyone. If you attack one person over multiple years that becomes more than trolling, it becomes personal. Trolling is not personal. As you say, it's "for the lulz", it's to get a reaction, any reaction. If someone wants a reaction they don't care who from. I've never met anyone that would call years of harassment that extended i…

Off topic, but just a note: as a decidedly-not-teenage (by over 2x ;) person, thanks for Curse. It was a godsend during my WoW days.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#55

Post by SoftwareMaven »

jarrett wrote: post #46
zxcdw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying it is not harassment. Though, I don't consider the terms to be orthogonal(as in, they can co-exist within the same context). I am saying it is my understanding that many kids(not all) consider the stuff in the blog post as very successful trolling in fact. The act of trolling, as I see it, is to delibirately cause harm and grief to the victim regardless of means. What differs it from just simply bully…

The term "trolling," as the folks I know use it, doesn't refer to stuff intended to cause harm or grief. Rather, it usually refers to something that would cause fleeting annoyance, or perhaps an eye roll. Or something designed to stir up a tempest in a teapot, e.g. an exaggeratedly controversial forum comment. What the OP describes wouldn't be called trolling in my social circle. It would be called stalking. I think…

I think the 4chan crowd would have considered what they did to Jessi Slaughter "trolling for lulz", yet I don't think you could reasonably say it wasn't harassment, too.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#56

Post by daeken »

gnarbarian wrote: post #48
magobarca wrote: post #35

I have to ask. Why was this young man given the opportunity to escape the law despite committing a hate crime. He threatened murder and rape. Would he have been afforded the privilege of a hand shake rather than hand cuffs if he was... say a member of a outgroup, say for example, an Arab?

Showing the kid who the bigger man is by forgiving him has a diffusing effect on the situation. It shows compassion and empathy for him, (something the kid initially did not have for the OP). If the kid could produce so much hate out of thin air imagine how angry and hateful he could be if he blamed OP for incarcerating him. (as ass backward that logic is)

Agreed entirely. This sort of thing can turn into a vicious cycle in an instant; by forgiving him, the OP has almost certainly stopped that in its tracks.

However, I can't help but have concerns about the kid's future -- this sort of behavior over a long period screams mental illness -- and sincerely hope that counseling helps.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#57

Post by yelsgib »

For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing that some commenters (who I assume are adults) believe that the right thing to do is to hand a child like this over to the police or mental institutions. This idea that the police are some sort of magical wand that you can wave at problems to make them go away is at the center of our (our here meaning the US & Britain's) social decay (c.f. the current treatment of drug abusers, ethnic minorities, and the "mentally ill" in the United States).

Assuming this story is true, what OP did was the right, human, adult thing to do - to treat the child as a human being capable of change and growth and to see to it that the community accepted him and moved him towards change. Concepts like "justice" and "psychosis" are easy to throw around and are very practical, but their use is typically the root of more harm than good.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#58

Post by SoftwareMaven »

baddox wrote: post #30

> He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I said no. That's an impressive show of self control, but I wonder if his next victims will have preferred that you did contact the authorities. Presumably, at age 17 this guy won't be living with his parents for much longer.

I really hope the OP didn't just leave it with "get him counseling" and then walk away. I hope he required follow-up that the counseling was happening and progress was being made.

In fact, if I was in that situation, I think I would want to be given the ability to talk to the counselor about the progress (or lack thereof) being made. Even if I knew he was going to counseling, I don't think I would be comfortable just washing my hands beyond that, for exactly the reason you point out.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#59

Post by stcredzero »

jarrett wrote: post #46
zxcdw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying it is not harassment. Though, I don't consider the terms to be orthogonal(as in, they can co-exist within the same context). I am saying it is my understanding that many kids(not all) consider the stuff in the blog post as very successful trolling in fact. The act of trolling, as I see it, is to delibirately cause harm and grief to the victim regardless of means. What differs it from just simply bully…

The term "trolling," as the folks I know use it, doesn't refer to stuff intended to cause harm or grief. Rather, it usually refers to something that would cause fleeting annoyance, or perhaps an eye roll. Or something designed to stir up a tempest in a teapot, e.g. an exaggeratedly controversial forum comment. What the OP describes wouldn't be called trolling in my social circle. It would be called stalking. I think…

>* The term "trolling," as the folks I know use it, doesn't refer to stuff intended to cause harm or grief.*

That's very interesting. I don't think you'd have to look very hard to find someone who would include harm and/or grief short of murder as "trolling." Just making someone feel like they have a target painted on them can cause substantive harm to someone. Do this in the context of gender, and it can be called sexual harassment. Do this in the context of race, and it could be called racism or a hate crime.

I remember the time before 9-11 and McVeigh when talking about a bomb in the US was a joke, because it was inconceivable such a thing would really happen. Amazing how a change in experience changes that. All of you college students and suburban kids in your teens and 20's out there, keep in mind that there's a whole lot of experience out there you don't have.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#60

Post by maskedinvader »

yelsgib wrote: post #57

For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing that some commenters (who I assume are…

well said, the story seems a little too dramatic for me to believe is possible...wow ! I mean mailing stuff...May be the right thing to do is to show the damage done which the author did, and to let the kid off with some counselling and forgiveness allowing a chance for him to change his ways and have a shot at a bright future.
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