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UA 1093

windbornesystems.com

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Re: UA 1093

#51

Post by alistairSH »

imglorp wrote: post #43
yabones wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a radar reflector would have helped a lot. ADS-B is off-limits for balloons, ultralights, hang-gliders, etc, and it seems like now that radio beacons can be manufactured very cheap & low power all those non-commercial aerial vehicles should be equipped.

Off limits? What's the reason? Why not ADS-B everything in the air and let the computers sort it out?

It's not off-limits. But, it's not required (for most balloons, ULs, etc). And due to cost and/or weight, people don't always use it when it's not mandatory.

Re: UA 1093

#52

Post by Jtsummers »

imglorp wrote: post #43
yabones wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a radar reflector would have helped a lot. ADS-B is off-limits for balloons, ultralights, hang-gliders, etc, and it seems like now that radio beacons can be manufactured very cheap & low power all those non-commercial aerial vehicles should be equipped.

Off limits? What's the reason? Why not ADS-B everything in the air and let the computers sort it out?

It's not off limits in the regulatory sense. Balloons are generally exempted due to their size and power constraints. Per the submission, the balloon weighs 2.4 lbs at launch. That doesn't give them much room to add a transponder and battery for ADS-B while staying within the target weight limit.

Re: UA 1093

#53

Post by elAhmo »

I wonder how much damage to the society should Musk do before people stop posting links to Twitter.

Re: UA 1093

#54

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #34
thedudeabides5 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't the worst case it goes into the engine and it explodes/burns?

No, because the plane is designed to safely fly without an engine. They test the engines by shooting turkeys from the grocery store into them while they run.

As god as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Through jet engines.

Re: UA 1093

#55

Post by naberhausj »

imglorp wrote: post #43
yabones wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a radar reflector would have helped a lot. ADS-B is off-limits for balloons, ultralights, hang-gliders, etc, and it seems like now that radio beacons can be manufactured very cheap & low power all those non-commercial aerial vehicles should be equipped.

Off limits? What's the reason? Why not ADS-B everything in the air and let the computers sort it out?

47 CFR 87.107 requires that radios transmitters in aircraft broadcast an identification number, and the allowed forms of identification aren't permissive enough for non-registered aircraft.

ADS-B out is still relatively new (especially in aviation terms) so I expect we'll see this continue to evolve.

Re: UA 1093

#56

Post by _vqpz »

elAhmo wrote: post #53

I wonder how much damage to the society should Musk do before people stop posting links to Twitter.

I don't know why you would expect a forum of wannabe tech startup founders to turn on Elon Musk, many people here still idolize him.

Re: UA 1093

#57

Post by naberhausj »

nine_k wrote: post #25
thorsson12 wrote: post #21

It is surprising that weather balloons don't have ADS-B out (or did this ballon have that and something about the system didn't work?). If it did work, ADS-B would have made this collision very avoidable.

What are the power requirements of ADS-B? How much more battery would the balloon have to lift?

About the same as a transponder, I think. According to the FAA many weather balloons operate their transponders (if equipped at all) intermittently to preserve battery.

Re: UA 1093

#58

Post by mattofak »

nine_k wrote: post #25
thorsson12 wrote: post #21

It is surprising that weather balloons don't have ADS-B out (or did this ballon have that and something about the system didn't work?). If it did work, ADS-B would have made this collision very avoidable.

What are the power requirements of ADS-B? How much more battery would the balloon have to lift?

The uAvionix EchoESX [1] claims 4W continuous and with antenna probably adds 400g (0.8lb.)

WindBorne claims "12+ days typical flight, with demonstrated capability for 75+ day missions." So 1150Wh minimum (80Ah at 4S, which is probably like 16lb.) But you're up in the atmosphere and probably need to heat that battery so... more. But we're already at 18lb additional weight... Maybe you could offset with solar panels...

But, given that the entire balloon and payload weighs 2.5lb we're already way off the edge of feasibility for an active ads-b out.

Maybe there's something that would only listen and then respond when it heard something and that would reduce the power draw. But we're needing something 2 orders of magnitude less massive.

[1] https://uavionix.com/general-aviation/echoesx/

Re: UA 1093

#59

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #54
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the plane is designed to safely fly without an engine. They test the engines by shooting turkeys from the grocery store into them while they run.

As god as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Through jet engines.

Pretty sure even Les wouldn't have thought that ;-)

Re: UA 1093

#60

Post by eirikbakke »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #34
thedudeabides5 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't the worst case it goes into the engine and it explodes/burns?

No, because the plane is designed to safely fly without an engine. They test the engines by shooting turkeys from the grocery store into them while they run.

Afterwards, they ship the entire engine, with turkey giblets and all, to a lab where the resulting damage is analyzed. Smells awful, according to the engineer I sat next to at a Thanksgiving dinner once...
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