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Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

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Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#51
Thanks Hrvoje Horvat for such a detailed diagram! It'll help me learn the Network stack much, much easier.

His book "Operativni sustavi i računalne mreže - Linux u primjeni" [0] (Operating systems and computer networks - Linux in use) may well make learning Croatian worth it! Congrats on publishing, and thanks for such an invaluable contribution!

[0]: https://zenodo.org/records/17371946

Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#53
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of a netfilter (the thing behind iptables and nftables) diagram rather than just iptables. If you know how iptables maps to that diagram you are very likely to be able to quickly understand how nftables does too.

Sure, but we really shouldn’t be encouraging the use of iptables in 2025.

I've wanted to switch to nftables on some of my systems but found that some software or other depended on iptables (e.g. Docker Engine, Proxmox). Use nftables if you can get away with it but iptables-specific knowledge is still extremely relevant.

Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#54
Is there some sort of equivalent to this book but in English, which explains and diagrams the Linux network stack? Doesn't need to be all in one, I feel like having a more high level overview and then subsystem diagrams with explanations would work as well.

Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#56
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of a netfilter (the thing behind iptables and nftables) diagram rather than just iptables. If you know how iptables maps to that diagram you are very likely to be able to quickly understand how nftables does too.

Sure, but we really shouldn’t be encouraging the use of iptables in 2025.

For the most part iptables is no more, iptables tools are now just wrappers to nftables. Technically you can still write iptables rules, and they will show up in nftables. Wouldnt recommend long term but its a good way to see the translation

Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#57
post #46
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not realalistic for most of the Linux world. Soooo many systems are still using iptables even though we "should" be using nft everywhere. If you're going to be a Linux Sys/Net Admin today, you need an understanding of both systems.

If someone doesn’t know iptables, they probably are not required to know it. You wouldn’t recommend people to learn C++03, would you?

Ahhhhhh at least an understanding that it exists and how it might interact with nft is probably beneficial unless they’re expecting to only ever work on greenfield equipment. If you were to walk into a job with existing IT infrastructure, there’s a solid chance that you’ll encounter iptables. If you’re looking to do a deep dive into something and learn it well, definitely nft is the way to go but being able to tweak iptables configs without needing to start over with a clean nft slate is valuable.

To your C++03 analogy, I wouldn’t recommend learning C++03, but I also wouldn’t recommend solely learning C++23 either. C++20 and 23 have some really cool stuff in them that can definitely make your code cleaner, but there’s a lot of codebases that are stuck on older versions (at $JOB one of our target platforms is stuck on C++17 and will never get an upgrade so we can’t move the codebase forward until we abandon that kit).

Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#58
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone doesn’t know iptables, they probably are not required to know it. You wouldn’t recommend people to learn C++03, would you?

Ahhhhhh at least an understanding that it exists and how it might interact with nft is probably beneficial unless they’re expecting to only ever work on greenfield equipment. If you were to walk into a job with existing IT infrastructure, there’s a solid chance that you’ll encounter iptables. If you’re looking to do a deep dive into something and learn it well, definitely nft is the way to go but being able to tweak…

If the person in question has never had the need to know iptables, why would that change now? If a job will require such knowledge, they will pick it up. Iptables is exposed as a facade to nftables, lots of the concepts just transfer over, just that iptables is the more antiquated option.

I for instance have never really used iptables in anger, but have lots of experience with nftables and pf. I’ve used both in a professional setting. People can be made aware of iptables, but unless there’s a need to know it, I wouldn’t recommend picking it up now. And you’ll know if you need to learn c++17 or iptables, or python 2.7.

Re: Entire Linux Network stack diagram (2024)

#59
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhhhhh at least an understanding that it exists and how it might interact with nft is probably beneficial unless they’re expecting to only ever work on greenfield equipment. If you were to walk into a job with existing IT infrastructure, there’s a solid chance that you’ll encounter iptables. If you’re looking to do a deep dive into something and learn it well, definitely nft is the way to go but being able to tweak…

If the person in question has never had the need to know iptables, why would that change now? If a job will require such knowledge, they will pick it up. Iptables is exposed as a facade to nftables, lots of the concepts just transfer over, just that iptables is the more antiquated option. I for instance have never really used iptables in anger, but have lots of experience with nftables and pf. I’ve used both in a pro…

For more context, I've been working pretty closely with firewalls on all desktop platforms, and I've been doing so since 2018, and I've never had know about iptables on Linux.
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