How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#51

Post by enraged_camel » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 4:59 AM UTC

ender7 wrote: post #24

redthrowaway wrote: post #3

The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other than his idea and his impetus is naive…

What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry…

I think if he had lived for another five years, he would have made peace with Google like he did with Microsoft.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#52

Post by enraged_camel » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:01 AM UTC

beedogs wrote: post #37

cageface wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happening already: The Korean Times is reporting this morning that "Apple has reduced purchases of liquid crystal display (LCD) panels for tablet computers from Samsung Display amid the deepening patent disputes, said a leading market research firm, Friday. Market experts said that the move is aimed at minimizing its reliance on Samsung parts." http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/apple-cu...

At a certain point, Apple is going to run out of partners to piss off.

They have over $100 billion in the bank. With that amount of money, there will always be someone willing to partner up with Apple.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#53

Post by ricardobeat » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:03 AM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #26

ef4 wrote: post #18

The argument that Apple needs their own map for strategic reasons is fine, but it doesn't explain why they needed to ship it before it was any good. I can imagine three explanations: (1) They think they need to start gathering user-generated map content. "Add your business to Apple Maps if you want iPhone users to find it." (2) An internal struggle at Apple. If the supporters of the maps project thought it was at ris…

I think "why did they ship the new maps app before it was ready?" is the most interesting question about this whole debacle. I don't think they actually gather user-generated map content via iOS maps, so (1) doesn't make much sense to me. (2) strikes me as weird reasoning. If there's a good argument that Apple needs their own maps, enough to justify the acquisitions, it doesn't seem likely that the project would get…

> I don't think they actually gather user-generated map content via iOS maps

I've noticed my search suggestions changing from one day to another (including misspellings), so apparently Maps does have some form of crowd-sourcing built in.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#54

Post by rat87 » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:06 AM UTC

s_baby wrote: post #47

joeblau wrote: post #19

I agree that the obsession against Google is hurting Apple, but I also feel that Apple is not the only company with a vendetta against Google. Twitter, Facebook, Yammer, Mozilla, and Dropbox are a few names that come to mind off of the top of my head. One thing that all of these companies have in common is that they had a product, and Google came though (or is coming) with its machine to copy/paste it as a Google pro…

Isn't Mozilla funded by Google?

Yes but Mozilla would drop google if they wanted to, they could probably get a decent chunk from microsoft for making bing search the default(I think they use Yandex as the main search provider in russia for a while).

Chrome competes with firefox but mozilla has no beef with google.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#55

Post by batiudrami » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:08 AM UTC

warmwaffles wrote: post #13

wklauss wrote: post #5

I'm afraid the obsession is not on Apple over Google but on the media and blogs over Apple and every single thing they do. Of course Apple will watch its competitor closely, especially since both are now headed in same direction. And of course they need competing services. Likewise, I'm sure that Google is watching closely every move Apple makes. But nobody in their right mind would say Google has an "obsession" with…

Google maps sucked when it first came out. It will be fixed and both applications will improve. I think this is will only turn out two awesome map applications rather than just relying on google for everything.

It would suck if it launched today with someone else with a product like Google Maps is today. At the time, maps was fantastic.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#56

Post by kevhsu » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:08 AM UTC

s_baby wrote: post #47

joeblau wrote: post #19

I agree that the obsession against Google is hurting Apple, but I also feel that Apple is not the only company with a vendetta against Google. Twitter, Facebook, Yammer, Mozilla, and Dropbox are a few names that come to mind off of the top of my head. One thing that all of these companies have in common is that they had a product, and Google came though (or is coming) with its machine to copy/paste it as a Google pro…

Isn't Mozilla funded by Google?

yep.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#57

Post by DrStalker » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:14 AM UTC

fpgeek wrote: post #25

saurik wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have good evidence for turn-by-turn, though: when Apple decided "ok, we cave, here's an SDK and an App Store", the contracts with developers had a weird clause saying you couldn't build a turn-by-turn application that was later changed to only that you could not build a turn-by-turn application using the data that Apple had licensed from Google; while this isn't for certain, the obvious interpretation of this is t…

It is worth noting that Google themselves didn't offer turn-by-turn directions until Android 2.0 (October 2009). Interestingly, Google Maps Navigation launched in the US shortly after they had ditched Tele Atlas (owned by TomTom) as a US data provider. It was speculated (though not confirmed, as far as I could find) that Google ended the relationship because it was too expensive/restrictive with respect to turn-by-tu…

Given how much TomTom charged for their navigation app long after GPS stopped being a high cost luxury product I wouldn't be surprised if they demanded too much money from Google.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#58

Post by josephcooney » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:14 AM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #28

How do we know this is Apple trying to hurt Google? How do we know this isn't Google trying to hurt Apple? The fact that this sucks so bad for Apple's users and seems to be a net positive for Google would seem to indicate it is likely to be otherwise. The fact that Apple extolled the virtues of its map is immaterial. Of course they are going to do that.

How does google force Apple to ship broken software again? I've forgotten....

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#59

Post by meepmorp » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:17 AM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #53

andreyf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "why did they ship the new maps app before it was ready?" is the most interesting question about this whole debacle. I don't think they actually gather user-generated map content via iOS maps, so (1) doesn't make much sense to me. (2) strikes me as weird reasoning. If there's a good argument that Apple needs their own maps, enough to justify the acquisitions, it doesn't seem likely that the project would get…

> I don't think they actually gather user-generated map content via iOS maps I've noticed my search suggestions changing from one day to another (including misspellings), so apparently Maps does have some form of crowd-sourcing built in.

There's a place to report errors in address information, pin placement, etc. in the maps app.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#60

Post by jfoutz » Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 5:19 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #51

ender7 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry…

I think if he had lived for another five years, he would have made peace with Google like he did with Microsoft.

If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations, apple is a race car. It's delicate, fragile, and super fast. Also, it's never getting another oil change. let's see how long it runs until it throws a rod.