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Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

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Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#51

Post by rini17 »

brap wrote: post #45
jncfhnb wrote: post #30

If you ever get a chance to see sled dogs in Alaska or wherever, holy shit do those dogs ever want to pull a sled. I’ve never seen an animal so fixated.

What if you never trained them to pull, and they never observed that behavior? Would they still want to do it?

It's pretty hard to avoid any situations where pulling is possible. Such as on leash. You usually have to intensely train working dogs not to pull on leash.

They would still fixate on other behaviors they are trained on. And if not trained and neglected, often have destructive behaviors.

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#52

Post by ajkjk »

I read somewhere that domesticated dogs are to some degree bred to stay in their "childlike" state, so in a way they act like wolf puppies that never get older. Probably different breeds have different degrees of this. But anyway, I wonder if there is supposed to be some counterbalancing "maturity" or "responsibility" impulse that would cause them to decide not to do the thing, but since that has been bred out / disabled, they just run on impulse forever.

Incidentally I feel this way also: like I never fully grew up, and I easily regress to being trapped in a childlike state where I'll e.g. play video games all day. To snap out of it I have to "remember" to be an adult, like it's easily forgotten especially if my daily life doesn't ask me to have any serious responsibilities. maybe dogs don't have any responsibilities so they have no reason to stop playing.

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#53

Post by KittenInABox »

superkuh wrote: post #11
stirfish wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's something that doesn't actually exist in mammals and it's current popularity is mostly from profit seeking scams for rehabilitation "clinics" preying on the 'screens are addictive' meme burning through current parent populations. What about gambling, eating, or shopping?

Gambling is not an addiction. It is "gambling disorder" and it was grandfathered into the DSM. It is explicitly not an addiction medically. Eating and shopping are two great examples not erronously grandfathered in, which committees repeated find are not addiction, but which those scammers love to profit off of.

If this is true, why do GLP-1 drugs which are just hormones also shown to have an effect on gambling?

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#55

Post by brandall10 »

delichon wrote: post #6

Perhaps not surprising, working breeds – many of which are known to have been artificially selected for high toy or predatory motivation – were overrepresented in the sample. This is the vibe I get from my golden retriever. Chasing the tennis ball is more than play, it's a justification for life, her contribution to the pack. Actually eating food has a higher priority than chasing the ball, but not much else does. Wh…

I grew up with a cocker spaniel obsessed with tennis balls to the point of covering his food with them and letting it rot. Looking into his eyes conveyed no emotion and he didn't seem to care much for affection. He was a tennis ball tracking machine.

There was nothing you could do to satiate his desire. If you gave in to a catch session, you could throw it 100 times, he would start coughing/convulsing from exhaustion, yet still drop a ball at your feet begging you to throw it. You could probably have killed him with it.

If no one was playing catch with him he would spend hours scouring the neighborhood for balls hidden in bushes. At one point I believe he had over 20 balls piling up in various places in our backyard. We would regularly take his balls away so he only had a couple, but more would magically appear.

We did have a little fun with this. My dad would use him as a tennis practice 'partner'. And we built a tennis ball cannon powered by M80s (note: this was mid-80s in the SFV when/where things like bottle rockets and blow guns were legal).

I've had to put down quite a few animals, and he was the only one were there was no sadness, only relief when his time came, esp. after 15 long years of having to pander to this obsessive behavior.

My belief is animals experience something similar to autism, and he was as far along the spectrum as possible, to the point where the only thing that defined him was his working instinct. That million years of mind-meld evolution w/ humans? Simply not there.

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#56

Post by wewewedxfgdf »

This is a really fun 16 minute listen to how this precise dog behaviour is exploited to eradicate rats on Lord Howe Island.

They search specifically for dogs obsessed with ball chasing and turn them into rat hunting dogs.

There's funny bit where they talk about finding a dog that had learned how to use the tennis ball firing machine and spent all day chasing a tennis ball and putting it back in the machine which fires the tennis ball in a never ending loop.

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/scienceshow/dogs-help...

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#57

Post by HankB99 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #25
delichon wrote: post #6

Perhaps not surprising, working breeds – many of which are known to have been artificially selected for high toy or predatory motivation – were overrepresented in the sample. This is the vibe I get from my golden retriever. Chasing the tennis ball is more than play, it's a justification for life, her contribution to the pack. Actually eating food has a higher priority than chasing the ball, but not much else does. Wh…

> As in I'm obligated to throw the damn ball. As opposed to my Newfoundland that will tease me with the ball and then I'm obligated to chase her until she wears out, I catch her, or I bribe her with a treat.

Our kids have a Rottweiler that loves to chase a ball, Bring it back and then dare us to try to take it away from her. She can drop if convinced. Or I have a second ball that is more interesting, causing her to drop the other ball. She can hold two balls in her mouth so I have to wait for her to drop the first ball before I throw.

She also has a large (about 1 food diameter) ball that can't possibly fit in her mouth and I can kick that at which point she'll drop the little ball and try to get the big one in her mouth.

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#58

Post by JimBlackwood »

herghost wrote: post #14

We've recently come to this conclusion with our Cockapoo. His mother was a working Cocker Spaniel. When the weather is poor we have often tried to get shorter walks in dry spells but augment it with as much ball time as possible to make sure he's getting enough exercise (since he generally dislikes bad weather). It's become apparent that there's no possibility of satiety through chasing the ball though. He will simpl…

For a breed that is partly bred to flush out game, throwing a ball is incredibly adrenaline inducing and will not tire them out - they’ll just keep going till they fall down. Working cockers are one of the breeds susceptible to exercise induced collapse, albeit rare it shows how insanely motivated they are.

To get them tired, you need to chill them out and have them use their brain and/or nose.

Maybe try some sniffing games, sit down during the walk and have them just take in the environment, do some obedience that makes them think, or throw their food in the grass and have them figure it out.

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#59

Post by croisillon »

ajkjk wrote: post #52

I read somewhere that domesticated dogs are to some degree bred to stay in their "childlike" state, so in a way they act like wolf puppies that never get older. Probably different breeds have different degrees of this. But anyway, I wonder if there is supposed to be some counterbalancing "maturity" or "responsibility" impulse that would cause them to decide not to do the thing, but since that has been bred out / disa…

you might be thinking of neoteny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny#In_domestic_animals

Re: Addictive-like behavioural traits in pet dogs with extreme motivation for toys

#60

Post by bitwize »

delichon wrote: post #6

Perhaps not surprising, working breeds – many of which are known to have been artificially selected for high toy or predatory motivation – were overrepresented in the sample. This is the vibe I get from my golden retriever. Chasing the tennis ball is more than play, it's a justification for life, her contribution to the pack. Actually eating food has a higher priority than chasing the ball, but not much else does. Wh…

No take. Only throw.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/no-take-only-throw

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