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Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

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Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#51
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is 404 media banned?

I asked ChatGPT and it linked me to a post dang responded to. It’s related to their paywall. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42308348

Their paywall is no different to any other paywall, so it is clearly not because of the paywall

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#52
post #26

Ok so what do we do? I'm serious. I'm sick of this corruption.

A good question. One I don't have any clean answers to. A lot of folks will have a knee-jerk 'switch to linux' response, but that's not exactly that simple - is it?

It is, unless you rely on apps strongly tied to Apple (which you avoid anyway).

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#53

Why don't citizens have the right to track federal agencies? Don't they serve us? Apple is capitulating to autocratic rule.

I'm gonna steelman an argument I don't hold: What about CIA? Revealing the identity of a CIA operative is a crime. I'm just responding to the part "Don't they serve us?" > Intentionally disclosing the identity of a U.S. intelligence agent, including a CIA officer, is a federal crime under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (IIPA), which can result in up to 10 years in prison and fines. This law applies to ind…

But intelligence and law enforcement aren't the same thing, and the CIA is specifically prohibited from operating domestically. Valiant attempt, but talking about law enforcement (again, as opposed to intelligence) activities that take place in public is a matter of settled law. We decided that you're allowed to warn people that the police are around, even if it will help people get away with crimes, as a first amendment matter when we decided that police can't make it illegal for you to flash your lights at an oncoming driver to warn them (https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/headlight-flashing/). There's no steelman for this, Apple is just trying to preemptively comply with an administration that considers civil rights inconvenient.

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, but ICE is not an intelligence agency or holds classified information.

They're some kind of law enforcement agency that is on a mission to capture people breaking laws. If your local sheriff is on their way to serve a warrant of some kind, and you call the person and warn them to leave or alert them to destroy evidence, is that going to go well? I don't think it should.

Everybody knows the sheriff, their face is everywhere, and they actually get voted in, and out of office.

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#55

Why don't citizens have the right to track federal agencies? Don't they serve us? Apple is capitulating to autocratic rule.

Apple and Tim Apple are here for profits. They could not care less if you, the customer lived or died, as long as your check clears.

Source: Tim Apple sucking up to Trump like he's the antidote. This is even more ironic considering Tim's sexual orientation and Mango Jabba's take on "the gays".

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#56
post #26

Ok so what do we do? I'm serious. I'm sick of this corruption.

Can host it on a website. Why bother with an app?

To get notifications one site says:

"You’ll also need to configure some things (primarily service workers and integration with Apple's Push API) in the backend code of your Progressive Web App to handle push notifications (and permissions received from users)."

Does Apple allow integration with the Push API for everyone or same limitations that got this removed from stores?

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#57
I'm generally very anti-Apple when it comes to their draconian control over the code I'm allowed to execute on hardware I've purchased. However, I'm going to devil's advocate this situation for a minute (and I do mean the devil, because that is what Apple is):

Very broadly speaking, my position that I feel strongly on is: Apple should enjoy a right to distribute or restrict whatever apps they want through their app store. They might have a reasonable right to restrict what apps can be installed on their operating system and the means through which those apps are installed; I could be convinced either way depending on the day and I would not lose sleep if precedence is established in either direction. But they absolutely should not have any rights when it comes to restricting what operating systems I can run on their devices. I outline that only to state the context and framework within which the next paragraph is typed.

If Apple doesn't want to carry and distribute the anti-ICE app, I think that's their right. Apple's problem right now is that this unilaterally now means that the native application can no longer be executed on iOS, and that is a problem, but let's pretend like it isn't and that this app is now only available through the Epic Games App Store (or wherever). Why is this situation better for the anti-ICE app than just being a web app? This should be a web app, right? It shouldn't really rely on any native capabilities.

Phrase this another way, flip this on its head: the anti-ICE app wants in the App Store because of the marketing and ease of distribution it enables, which I feel are not natural rights developers should have when making applications. Its similar to freedom of speech; you have a right to speak, but you don't have a right to be heard. You should have a right for your app to be available (not all apps can be web apps; but this can). You should not have a right to ultra-streamlined distribution through Apple's servers.

I understand why this is a flashpoint, and I think its important that we push Apple on this issue because there should be more options when it comes to running code on mobile devices. However, functionally speaking: Y'all should just make this a web site.

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#58
post #26

Ok so what do we do? I'm serious. I'm sick of this corruption.

The corruption is allowing illegal immigrants into the country in the first place. Its a mess that needs cleaned up. I dont condone excessive use of violence unless it's warranted, but open your eyes. Biden allowed the flood gates open. You have to recognize this reality.

Trumps deportation numbers are not out of trend with prior presidents. Its on par with Obama.

Make immigration easier for law abiding productive members of society. Dont reward those who cut in line.

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#59

There's a national security argument for the EU banning non-European app stores.

100%. There is even a very strong national security argument for the US Government allowing Apple this level of control over the hardware that ~200 million Americans carry.

Re: Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps

#60

Why don't citizens have the right to track federal agencies? Don't they serve us? Apple is capitulating to autocratic rule.

Yes - you have the right to observe public actions of federal agencies and agents and to report on them.

However a private entity, including Apple, is free to censor whatever they want on their platforms.

For example, I have the right to voraciously criticize or praise the current Administration or the prior Administration without government interference. However if you own a grocery store you are generally free to ban anyone wearing, or not wearing, a garment criticizing or praising either Administration (or any specific combination of praising or criticizing or referring to the current Administration or the prior Administration). Political views, unlike race or religion for example, are not a protected class under federal law even in a public accommodation such as a grocery store.

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