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ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

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Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#51

Post by apparent »

hedora wrote: post #4
leakycap wrote: post #2

> the relationship between the agency and the company predates the Trump administration IMSI catchers/stingrays have been common practice in local law enforcement for decades, haven't they? How is this different? > Some cell-site simulators can also intercept regular calls, text messages, and internet traffic. In what decade was this true, other than text messages? I don't think it is very easy even for an IMSI catch…

It's different because ICE is a paramilitary group operating illegally inside the US. They don't get warrants, engage in racial profiling, disappeared 2/3rds of the people sent to some of their facilities, arrest citizens, assault peaceful protesters, etc. They're doing this over the objection of state and local authorities, and despite the fact that their actions have been repeatedly ruled illegal by the courts.

Are they arresting citizens whose behavior does not warrant arrest? I have read about several arrests, but the citizens were all interfering with lawful detentions that ICE was carrying out.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#52

Post by vkou »

gruez wrote: post #48
fzeroracer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't require any tinfoil-hattery though because everything they're doing is very public. Like you look at their actions Chicago [1] and I think it's impossible to NOT think they're an illegal paramilitary group. They're rounding up, detaining and arresting US citizens and destroying their property under the guise of sweeping illegal immigrants. They've violated people's constitutional rights multiple times over…

>They're rounding up, detaining and arresting US citizens and destroying their property under the guise of sweeping illegal immigrants. What's the proportion of US citizens arrested compared to actual illegal immigrants?

If they can violate any one's rights, they can violate anyone's rights.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#53

Post by cortesoft »

fzeroracer wrote: post #41
cosmicgadget wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? They're either chasing down people with an administrative warrant (which as far as I can tell are largely valid) or they're using reasonable suspicion which SCOTUS just decided can be determined by a combination of ethnic, economic, and geographic factors. The latter seems wrongly-decided but it is lawful by definition. What actions are you referring to and what is the treasonous intent? They seem to just be sel…

The SCOTUS abdicating their duty to the constitution does not make ICE's actions any less illegal, it just makes the Supreme Court as an institution illegitimate. It is unfortunate that things have devolved so far, but it is more important than ever that we state things clearly and succinctly in the face of those that have decided the constitution no longer matters.

You might believe SCOTUS has abdicated their duty, but that doesn’t make it illegal. The whole reason the Supreme Court exists is because there is no such thing as “clearly illegal” without some kind of adjudicating body that can decide if something breaks the law. Laws aren’t like math axioms; you can’t prove or disprove that a law has been broken with pure logic, you have to have humans interpret the words and apply it to a situation.

By definition, the supreme courts decisions are the law, unless the legally prescribed measures to overrule them are taken.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#54

Post by cosmicgadget »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #42
cosmicgadget wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? They're either chasing down people with an administrative warrant (which as far as I can tell are largely valid) or they're using reasonable suspicion which SCOTUS just decided can be determined by a combination of ethnic, economic, and geographic factors. The latter seems wrongly-decided but it is lawful by definition. What actions are you referring to and what is the treasonous intent? They seem to just be sel…

> What actions are you referring to The deportations to Ecuador despite a court order not to. Detaining an American and refusing him a lawyer [1]. Ignoring state law (where not superseded by federal law). [1] https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-...

Ecuador: my recollection is they did the deportations without process which is probably illegal and was therefore halted by SCOTUS pending a final decision. The administration sent a plane after a lower court had ordered them not to, then claimed incompetence. As far as I am aware, since then deportees have been given enough process that it hasn't required another trip to the shadow docket. I'd personally bin this under "not descriptive of the legality of ICE's campaign in general" because it (afaik) is halted indefinitely. It's terrible, for sure, but that's not the question at hand.

Detentions: I've read a handful of stories of citizens being detained in the dragnet operations, then released. We'll see if they have successful civil rights suits. Depending on the scale, this could disprove the contention that ICE is largely acting within the law. Since this isn't a haphazard operation, they probably have some reason to believe their detention powers cover this.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#55

Post by k33n »

code_runner wrote: post #33
cosmicgadget wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in some situations… I don’t think that violently kidnapping people off the streets, without showing badges, in unmarked vehicles, masked, etc is a punishment that fits the crime. Missing a court date once multiple years ago, failing to navigate a complex process, an…

Obama was quite strict about it and deported tons of illegals. An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal.

Most Americans support the idea of deporting people who break our immigration laws, thusly cutting in line while millions of others patiently wait.

This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. Very few Americans support actual open borders. We can't feed, house or provide medical care to the entire world. That is why there is a process.

Were you this vocal when Obama deported millions, or is this just more "I hate Trump" hot air?

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#56

Post by apparent »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31
nielsbot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree enforcing immigration laws in this way is good and/or important? If so, can I ask why? What is our end goal?

> can I ask why? Simply put, Americans gave Republicans a popular mandate to reduce illegal immigration. Much of this was economic: illegal immigrants dilute the labour force. Some, particularly among Latin Americans, rose from perceived injustice: it’s frustrating to go through the American immigration process only to see someone who skipped it live a similar life. Some, e.g. those focused on crime, were just racist…

[flagged]

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#57

Post by SoftTalker »

nulbyte wrote: post #25
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't they using the official lawful interception interfaces? They may not want to leave a paper trail. “To obtain a [legal] wiretap order, law enforcement must demonstrate probable cause to a judge” [1]. Given ICE has been arresting Americans, they probably aren’t bothering with cause. Legal intercepts also require “minimization procedures to limit the interception of conversations unrelated to the investigat…

But, isn't intercepting communications using a fake cell tower a wiretap?

I wonder if there's an argument that mobile phones are using publicly-owned broadcast spectrum, and therefore, like when walking around in public, there isn't an expectation of privacy. Ham radio rules for example prohibit encryption because they are using public airwaves.

It used to be possible to just set up an analog receiver and you could listen to nearby cell phone calls.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#58

Post by k33n »

fzeroracer wrote: post #41
cosmicgadget wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? They're either chasing down people with an administrative warrant (which as far as I can tell are largely valid) or they're using reasonable suspicion which SCOTUS just decided can be determined by a combination of ethnic, economic, and geographic factors. The latter seems wrongly-decided but it is lawful by definition. What actions are you referring to and what is the treasonous intent? They seem to just be sel…

The SCOTUS abdicating their duty to the constitution does not make ICE's actions any less illegal, it just makes the Supreme Court as an institution illegitimate. It is unfortunate that things have devolved so far, but it is more important than ever that we state things clearly and succinctly in the face of those that have decided the constitution no longer matters.

The constitution doesn't prohibit the deportation of illegal immigrants. It's interesting that you believe the Supreme Court is illegitimate for rightly ruling based on the letter of the law.

If you want it changed, you have 100 ways to advocate for that without declaring one of the greatest American institutions we have as "illegitimate". It's an extreme view, but certainly common in shrinking hyper-left-wing online spaces.

You won't always get your way. That's Democracy.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#59

Post by theultdev »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #26
theultdev wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difference between deportations under Obama vs Trump is they aren't coming right back over. Easy to inflate deportations when you catch the same fish and the river is flowing. Much slower when you dam off the river and have to dig the remaining catfish out of the mud.

> Difference between deportations under Obama vs Trump is they aren't coming right back over “U.S. Border Patrol agents recorded nearly 238,000 apprehensions of migrants crossing the southern border illegally in fiscal year 2025” [1]. For 2012 to 2015, the chart shows about 360k, 420k, 480k and 330k, respectively. So ICE is spending $330 to 580 thousand dollars per additional Southwest border encounter in 2025 versus…

Interior enforcement is the focus currently.

Crossings are lower overall due to securing of the border.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#60

Post by coredog64 »

code_runner wrote: post #33
cosmicgadget wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in some situations… I don’t think that violently kidnapping people off the streets, without showing badges, in unmarked vehicles, masked, etc is a punishment that fits the crime. Missing a court date once multiple years ago, failing to navigate a complex process, an…

"due process" means "This is the process the government must follow" and is not shorthand for "You are allowed to appeal to the USSC". I think most people would be surprised how little process is owed to someone who is not legally present in the United States and how few opportunities there are for appeal.
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