The idea of there being some "government approved" list of things people can buy with this is horrifying and exactly why cash should continue to exist.
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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
51–60 of 581 posts
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#52Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…
Wouldn't say it's dirty or criminal, it's just convenient to use card, but if you buy a car it would be a bit weird if you insist on cash. It's mostly old people paying with cash these days.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#53Personally, I dream of an open-hardware, FLOSS wallet, also usable on POS like a bank smart card, confirming crypto transactions like legacy/traditional ones on its own display.
Internally, the signature part isolated like a smart-card, "embedded signature" hardware as a measure against double (multiple) spending, and reasonable limits on offline transactions with both parties offline (e.g., €10k/month).
The "embedded signature" hardware part is a bit vague because technologically it's not clear how to do something like that in a "secure enough" way, but it's a necessary part and the limit somewhat lowers the risk.
For use: mounted as a smartwatch or a pendant with a retractable lanyard, like ski-pass holders.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#54It's a check, they have invented checks.
You nailed it. Or those old *KU-CHUNK* machines that I remember from my childhood.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#55It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…
A brief history goes like this:
In the past embossed credit and debit cards were both accepted on planes. That's why they were embossed in the first place: for offline processing which in even more distant path was the only option. Later CC machines and offline chip/stripe transactions co-existed with online transactions.
Normally (at least in Europe) you couldn't get an embossed card, even a debit one, without proving your credit worthiness. The possibility of offline transactions assumes overdraft — the same as with check books.
When online transactions appeared, banks started to issue Visa Electron and Maestro cards which didn't work offline, could explicitly prohibit overdraft and were easier to get.
But nowadays all boundaries gradually disappeared. Nothing is embossed, Visa Electron doesn't exist, bank issue debit cards with credit codes. It's all much simpler and more confusing at the same time.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#56Kind of concerning when you see governments hardening themselves to massive AI cyber attacks.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#57Extracting keys from a modern SIM card is very difficult. The cost is way above 10K USD. So a payment card in offline mode is absolutely possible as long as one limits the payments to few hundreds USD.
The bigger challenge is an offline terminal that can easy accumulate tenths of USD in case of a long outage. But then compared with cards the terminal may have better protection.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#58> The online function shall apply to physical payment cards and accompanying PIN code when purchasing essential goods such as food, medicine and fuel. Is this a typo where they meant to say “the offline function”? If I’m reading this right, the goal is to allow food, fuel, and medicine purchases with card + PIN in offline mode. Seems like a reasonable goal. I wonder what the technical details will look like. Will the…
The card itself knows its balance and is authorised to approve transactions up to a limit fully offline. The UK already does this in some shops for low value items for NFC payments. You can tell the offline transactions because they immediately say 'approved' rather than taking a few seconds. If it turns out the card approved something 'wrongly', for example because you had previously reported the card lost to the ba…
It's incredible how the banks refuse to lose here; they will screw over the merchants before taking on any liability in this matter.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Debit cards are most definitely accepted on planes.
complicated. star/plus/cirrus etc - pure debit-only networks - aren't accepted on a plane debit cards that are on one of the credit card rails (visa, mastercard, etc) are very common. those work because they're just a normal visa transaction
> those work because they're just a normal visa transaction
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. In some payment situations you’re asked whether you’d like to have the transaction go through as debit or as credit—so those two must be different somewhere. And probably in more than just a bit in a packet, as, for example, paying with debit Visas or MasterCards (normal ones, not Electron resp. Maestro) in the Netherlands (where locals almost universally have credit cards) is something of a crapshoot.
Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026
#60The idea of there being some "government approved" list of things people can buy with this is horrifying and exactly why cash should continue to exist.
People should still be able to buy food and essentials even during cyberattacks from Russia. That's what Sweden is preparing for.
And there's a solution to that that lets them value what they want appropriately and not have to choose it from a government list. I think unfortunately the temptation is too high for governments to also try and tell people what their priorities should be, which is why having an exchange medium that doesn't involve government control is important.