Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity • Hacker News Board

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#51

Post by everdrive » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #49

everdrive wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine that the author is young, very intelligent, and just really starting to pick up real-world career experience. What the author points out is true, but I cannot imagine most HN readers are thinking "I'm expecting my workplace to be totally fair and merit-based, just like school was." This statement is pretty interesting and revealing; school is very much not like that for a lot of people, and I suspect…

"I'm expecting my workplace to be totally fair and merit-based" i don't know where you worked, but i have been working for a few decades now, and i still expect exactly that. even more so than school was. the point is, even if my expectations do not match reality everywhere, not expecting that would be like giving up. instead, because of this expectation, i do my best to create a work environment where this is actual…

I'll bet we agree more than you think. Understanding reality isn't the same as capitulating to it. Correct expectations can help you push back more effectively than constantly having your (overly-optimistic) hopes dashed. ie, I'm not just saying "everything sucks, be cynical."

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#52

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #21

SilverElfin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile rich kids get into good schools because they can afford after school activities and tutors since birth. This is a myth - most non-legacy admissions kids getting into good colleges aren’t spending on these things in the way that you think. They’re getting there because they’re actually smart and hard working and have a stable environment (like two parents). It doesn’t take much to get a very high test scor…

Based on personal experience I don't believe it has as much to do with smartness or willingess to work hard. A lot of poor kids have that too. The bigger difference is that successful parents are constantly acting as role models, giving their children cues to follow, and passing on important knowledge that schools don't whether they realize or not. Many poor kids miss out on those things entirely, and as a result end…

[deleted]

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#53

Post by bawolff » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:21 PM UTC

rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

Both stupidity and malice happen. It can often be difficult to tell the difference as we arent as objective as we think we are.

However, accidentaly attributing stupidity to what is malice is generally not too bad. If its malice it will happen again and you can revise your opinion.

Accidentally attribute malice to what is stupidity is an easy way to start grudges. This can blow back on you and turn someone who just made a mistake into someone who does actually hate you, and make third party observers think you are unreasonable.

So erring on the side of assuming stupidity is generally a good call.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#54

Post by apwell23 » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #46

rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

That kind of behavior is far less successful than many would expect. Higher ups are pretty aware of who does what, at least at 1 year+ time frames. That being said, I’ve seen many outrun their own incompetence. Getting incentives right in large organizations is difficult.

Being aware is totally irrelevant. Their incentives are not about rewarding the right person. Their incentives always are to protect themselves at all costs.

You are screwed if a higher up perceives you as threat. real or imaginary. you won't even know about your status till you get laidoff.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#55

Post by selimthegrim » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:28 PM UTC

rockercoaster wrote: post #44

everdrive wrote: post #15

I was quite surprised how different work was from school. There are a few specific considerations I never really see discussed: - In school you can fail the entire class, (ie, all the students) which is less true at work. At work, you're just hiring your "section" of the bell curve, and insofar as being "successful" means "doing well at your job and not getting fired" then a C or D student can potentially be happily…

Seconding all this. I'm worry that somewhere out there there are kids hearing adults go "high school has to do [shitty thing] to get you ready for the 'real world', which is even harder!" (LOL no it fucking isn't) or "enjoy it, these are the best days of your life, adult life is so much harder" (what the actual shit are they smoking? Harder stuff than weed, for sure) I had a relatively good high school experience, an…

Now try grad school when you run out of money.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#56

Post by apwell23 » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:28 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #47

rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

Some people get through the week by abusing other people.

One of my coworkers made up a totally bogus story about me to show her "management potential" about how she managed a situation with uncooperative team member on a project.

ofcourse our middle manager knew that it was bs but she was the one mentoring this person so she ran with it.

i didnt even know about this when all of a sudden i saw it my review with hr.

i considered this person my friend and we even hung out with each others families over holidays.

i was totally shaken by the whole situation.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#57

Post by not_that_d » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:39 PM UTC

I have seen really inept people given manager positions because they were out going and then crash after six months in the position and expecting that we fix all the management issues for some reason.

Honestly, I have no energy to be as social as the work life needs me to be, maybe that is ok. Maybe no.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#58

Post by dkarl » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:40 PM UTC

rockercoaster wrote: post #37

yoyohello13 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m with you except for 2. Knowing math is great.

I want to disagree with 2, but OTOH it's also so easy to do that I've just accidentally done it my whole life. 20 year programming career and I've never engaged with math beyond approximately Algebra II, in the real world. Hell, I go years at a time not needing anything trickier than Algebra I. Nearly all of the math I actually use I learned in the 6th grade or earlier, overwhelmingly elementary school arithmetic—mos…

You're probably using math without knowing it. Debugging through a piece of code is the same as finding a hole in a proof. "This method HAS to return the right value because C. C is always true because B. B is true because A. Ohh... but A isn't true if the record passed in is for a legacy user with no org manager. The method needs to be changed to work for inputs that don't satisfy the current assumptions."

It's not the math facts you learn so much as getting lots of practice with that kind of reasoning.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#59

Post by everdrive » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:41 PM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #45

everdrive wrote: post #15

I was quite surprised how different work was from school. There are a few specific considerations I never really see discussed: - In school you can fail the entire class, (ie, all the students) which is less true at work. At work, you're just hiring your "section" of the bell curve, and insofar as being "successful" means "doing well at your job and not getting fired" then a C or D student can potentially be happily…

I have the same experience, but would like to clarify that almost everything on this list is mostly only true of middle class employment. You absolutely can "fail" if you are on the bottom rung of the political-economic ladder -- this looks like a life in and out of prison, homelessness, despair, and an early death. You don't get endless chances from your landlord or your parole officer. If your area of weakness is "…

That's a fair point. My first job was retail, and I was accidentally late for a shift _once_ and I got put on probation for weeks and wasn't even allowed to take sick leave during the probationary period. The better the job the less you're treated like trash. People float all sorts of explanations for why this would be, but I think fundamentally people just don't know how to move away from class hierarchy. I think it's built into us.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#60

Post by taeric » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 5:42 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #15

I was quite surprised how different work was from school. There are a few specific considerations I never really see discussed: - In school you can fail the entire class, (ie, all the students) which is less true at work. At work, you're just hiring your "section" of the bell curve, and insofar as being "successful" means "doing well at your job and not getting fired" then a C or D student can potentially be happily…

Worth probably underlining in heavy ink that if you find that any of these points are not accurate where you are, then you are likely in a bad place.