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Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

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Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#51

I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…

> Well, for starters, imagine a legal organization with hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank. How many trolls would dare risk going up against them?

Uniloc[1] have gone up against Microsoft in an 8 year case. That's pretty significant.

The Wikipedia entry for patent troll[3] mentions a few companies, and who they went up against. (Techsearch vs Intel; Forgent Networks against 60 companies using JPEG (collecting over $100million from 30 of those companies before prior art made the patents invalid); RIM paid $625million (Canadian or US?) to NTP inc; MercExchange vs Ebay with damages at $30million but some secret deal worked out later.

It feels like these people won't care about the legal fund.

[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniloc#Patent_lawsuits)

[2] (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-05/microsoft-settles-f...)

[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_trolls)

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#53

I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…

It is not ridiculous. But it does not solve the problem. It plays right into the problem. What you are describing is already done, and has been done for many years, in one form or another, between corporations e.g. in the semiconductor industry with patent pools and cross-licensing; but it is not a matter of discussion in web forums. The reason why this stuff is now discussed in web forums is because this sort of protectionist racket is now reaching beyond a circumspect group of companies and is touching the free software world.

The solution as any informed but objective observer can tell you lies in taking away the power to sue - the junk patents which give people the right to sue for frivolous i.e. overly broad patent claims - and taking away the financial incentives - high fees by patent offices, high fees by patent lawyers and even the court fees - one could imagine E.D. Texas must thankful for all the patent troll business all stemming from the issuance of junk software patents. Stop issuing these junk patents. We deliberately opened the door for these in the not too distant past and we can also close it.

Needless to say, there is a fair bit of capital moving through the business method patent racket. That's why it's difficult to shut it down. We need to have junk software patent trolling declared as a class of white collar crime and then get some Giuliani-style prosecutors to come in and clean this mess up. I'm joking but you get the idea. It's not easy to stop this machine.

Creating another protectionist "insurance" scheme is not the answer. The perceived need for something like that is a symptom of the problem itself. The risk should not exist to begin with.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patent infringement isn't restricted to manufacture: "Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent." 17 USC 271(a) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/271

Wow, even just using a patented invention counts as infringement. I didn't expect that.

There are exceptions, and as you might guess they tend to be interpreted quite broadly. ;)

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#55

Just curious, how much do vague patents like this cost? Are they cheap? Expensive?

Think about it. What would happen if they were cheap?

Anyone could amass a large portfolio. We could all block each other's every move. No one would have any leverage.

But the second question you have to ask is what does it cost to sue? What if that were cheap?

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#56
post #8

It seems like PersonalWeb is trying to develop software... http://www.personalweb.com/ Interesting that their CEO was involved early on in P2P.

But the inventors don't work for them and they didn't file these patents nor were they assignees. They acquired the patents from someone else for a price.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#57

What's to stop patent trolls from forming a corporation with no assets, suing people, and then declaring bankruptcy if they lose their case? They could forfeit their patents, but it would be worthless anyway if they lost the case.

Hollywood has precisely this model, setting up a corporation for each film made that somehow always ends up making a big loss, all the while paying massive fees to studios setting it up in the first place.

One thing we can be sure of is that patent trolls will adjust their business models and practise far quicker than Congress does anything.

The correct fix is to stop granting so many patents. Each one granted should answer yes to "would this have taken about 20 years or more to happen otherwise". They could also have special patent courts which could ensure consistency in the actual "justice" that is happening.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#58

I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…

One problem with this is some of those members are potential patent trolls themselves. Witness the many Apple/Samsung/Google/Oracle cases.

Although there is some debate about the exact meaning of "patent troll", I would think that using the threat of litigation to prevent innovation falls under this.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#59
There is no need for elaborate laws to address the issue of patents for software and business methods. Nor a lawyer witch hunt. Nor some giant protection scheme like those mentioned in other comments.

The Constitution grants Congress the power to regulate patents. Everybody interested in solving this problem should ignore the half measures and demand the elimination of software and business method patents entirely. Other solutions will undoubtedly be gamed and the problem will persist.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#60
post #58

I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…

One problem with this is some of those members are potential patent trolls themselves. Witness the many Apple/Samsung/Google/Oracle cases. Although there is some debate about the exact meaning of "patent troll", I would think that using the threat of litigation to prevent innovation falls under this.

Apple, Samsung, Google and Oracle are all practicing entities. They're not trolls.

What they're doing law-suit wise is a power-play, a tit-for-tat that's started to escalate into dangerous nuclear territory.

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