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Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

hotminute.co.uk

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Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#51

Post by checker659 »

jansan wrote: post #33

I compared this to the QS ranking, where Oxford is still second in the world, and Durham, the new third place in the ranking mentioned in the article is 341. QS ranking does not even rank the first two, London School of Economics and University of St. Andrews. Does anybody know why? Edit: Sorry, I only looked at the Engineering ans Technology ranking. Anyway, QS ranking is vastly different from the Times' ranking.

> Oxford and Cambridge are tied for fourth in the 2026 rankings, after falling due to their relatively poor performance in the latest National Student Survey.

Nobody reads the article. Apparently not even pg.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#52

Post by joosters »

patanegra wrote: post #5
abxyz wrote: post #2

pg thinks this is because of letting in poor people: https://xcancel.com/paulg/status/1969334665375813679

This is extremely unfair framing. Oxford University has been discriminating people from independent schools for a while now. To get in, you need 4 A* from an independent schools, or just 3 As from state schools. That's not "letting in poor people" as you framed it. It's letting in dumber people, worse students. Lots of that is mainly based on classism (against people from middle class), racism (against white people).…

Oxbridge have never had to 'let in dumber people'. They are always heavily over-subscribed, and give offers to a small fraction of the people who come for an interview, let alone apply.

The whole point of the interview process is to assess not just the applicant's past achievements, but what they might be able to achieve if they got their place at the uni. Part of that is looking at the applicant's background, and knowing that even if they aren't currently at some elite high-fee school, they might still have the ability and capability to do well.

I am all in favor of this style of selection. The dark old days of "this kid's dad went to our college, we should do them a favour and let them in" are long gone, thankfully.

Can you point to any kind of evidence that Oxbridge are dumbing down their teaching, or lowering their standards of teaching? I doubt it.

Full disclosure: cambridge alumni, from a state school!

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#53

Post by znpy »

afavour wrote: post #14
TMWNN wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To get in, you need 4 A* from an independent schools, or just 3 As from state schools. Or ABB for the incoming president of the Oxford Union, the one who cheered Charlie Kirk's murder a few months after debating him in person. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2025/09/oxfo... >

It would be wonderful if we could, just once, have a conversation about something happening outside the US without bringing in US culture war talking points.

As somebody that's not from the UK and not from the US, knowing this guy cheered the murder of Charlie Kirk gives me a strong hint about the kind of person it's being talked about.

So yes, in that sense it's an useful piece of information.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#56

Post by [deleted] »

patanegra wrote: post #5
abxyz wrote: post #2

pg thinks this is because of letting in poor people: https://xcancel.com/paulg/status/1969334665375813679

This is extremely unfair framing. Oxford University has been discriminating people from independent schools for a while now. To get in, you need 4 A* from an independent schools, or just 3 As from state schools. That's not "letting in poor people" as you framed it. It's letting in dumber people, worse students. Lots of that is mainly based on classism (against people from middle class), racism (against white people).…

[deleted]

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#57

Post by geremiiah »

afavour wrote: post #3
abxyz wrote: post #2

pg thinks this is because of letting in poor people: https://xcancel.com/paulg/status/1969334665375813679

> Middle class students, knowing they'll be discriminated against, are now applying to US schools I can't take that seriously. Middle class students in the UK would not take on the level of student debt required to study in the US, the sums of money required are vastly, vastly different between the two countries. Sounds like PG has a hobby horse he very much wants to ride no matter what the facts show.

In British English, "middle class" refers to the well off professional classes or merchant traders. In American English, if I understand correctly, everyone who works is considered middle class.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#58

Post by hilios »

AlexandrB wrote: post #21
ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's letting in dumber people, worse students. Is it? Maybe a kid managing to struggle through a shitty school has to work harder than, say, Prince Charles with his private school and dedicated personal tutors.

Maybe. Unfortunately it's very hard to measure that. Moreover, how hard you have to work doesn't necessarily correlate to how good you are. The reality is elite schools are supposed to filter for "the best and brightest" not "the hardest workers".

>The reality is elite schools are supposed to filter for "the best and brightest" not "the hardest workers".

Maybe they are supposed to do this, but let's not act like the filter doesn't quite apply the same way if your parents are rich and or well connected. They're however very effective in filtering out bright kids whose parents can't afford the tuition and aren't lucky enough to get a scholarship.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#59

Post by rayiner »

AlexandrB wrote: post #32
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comic in https://pjhollis123.medium.com/careful-mate-that-foreigner-w... is, as ever, very relevant.

This is basically 100% backwards. In Canada it's large corporate lobbies pushing for more immigration. Why? Because it lets them keep wages low and makes unionization impossible. See also, Bernie 10 years ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0&pp=ygUVYmVybmllIG9... I don't know at what point people were convinced that the push against immigration is some kind of billionaire plot, but is has been great cover f…

You also end up with a voter base that demands relatively little from their political leaders. The left-wing parties can win elections just using some feel-good measures targeted at recent immigrants and promising to make it easier for their co-ethnics to either immigrate legally or stay if they have immigrated illegally. That enables them to move right on economic issues to capture the politically powerful knowledge worker class.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#60

Post by TMWNN »

afavour wrote: post #35
TMWNN wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publicly cheering Kirk's murder is what made Abaraonye notable. I provided a citation for the ABB grades, which is relevant to the comment I replied to.

> I provided a citation for the ABB grades, which is relevant to the comment I replied to. An extremely tenuous connection. Abaraonye (and even less his words on Kirk) had absolutely no relevance to the criteria by which the Times assesses universities, thus had no impact on Oxfords placement, thus has no relevance to the conversation.

Patanegra wrote:

> To get in, you need 4 A* from an independent schools, or just 3 As from state schools.

In reply, I provided a recently prominent example of someone recently admitted to Oxford with lower than 3 A grades on the A-Levels. I only mentioned Kirk's murder as context because, as I keep repeating, the person a) only became prominent because b) he publicly cheered said murder c) after debating Kirk in person. I don't know what else you can ask for here.

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