Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Universities should be more than toll gates

waliddib.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 148 posts

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#51

Post by RhysU »

radialstub wrote: post #39
aaplok wrote: post #20

The elephant in the room here is that perhaps the biggest difference between the two learning experiences that OP is describing is himself. He might just have discovered he is more mature at 30 than he was at 18...

There is a difference between learning about things that you find interesting at your own pace, and learning about things that interest other people with tight deadlines. Even if I enjoy learning, there were absolutely courses that were just a waste of time.

> ...there were absolutely courses that were just a waste of time.

How? Surely over 15 weeks each course taught you something about either the world or yourself.

I just looked back over my undergrad transcript to double check my experience. I took something away from every single class. It wasn't always the material itself.

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#53

Post by imtringued »

Almondsetat wrote: post #30
general1465 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> throwing walls of formulas with zero context, explanation or examples This rings so true for me. Lot of teachers has this ass backwards style of teaching where they will come up with final formula like deus-ex machina. Why? To buy his text book where it is explained the way he wants it.

Many formulas you use are the apex of months of research from the best minds of the last centuries. Every explanation is a deus-ex machina ordeal

Many people have hard won ideas, that doesn't make them valuable though.

Given a flood of results, you look at the most promising results and then figure out how they work, not the other way around.

Almost all successes are built on having knowledge of a desirable outcome first and foremost, rather than the means to obtain them.

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#54

Post by parpfish »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #4

I suspect a lot of people on HN have similar stories. College is always in conflict between rote memorization (easiest to grade, therefore cheaper) and actual understanding (best outcome, therefore increases college ranking).

Rote memorization often gets a bad wrap.

It shouldn’t be the sole purpose of a class, but sometimes you have to drill people to memorize a bunch of stuff so they’re able to deal with the higher level material.

Imagine doing math if you never had somebody force you to learn multiplication tables. Or if you were doing medical programs but hadn’t been forced to learn the names of all the bones/organs.

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#55

Post by firesteelrain »

I think it is fair to say universities lean heavily on credentialing, but calling them only toll gates is too harsh. They also provide exposure to new fields, access to labs and mentors, and peer networks that are hard to replicate outside.

That being said, the essay itself wanders and sometimes repeats points instead of driving the metaphor home. Tightening the structure would make the message stronger.

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#56

Post by PicassoCTs »

firesteelrain wrote: post #55

I think it is fair to say universities lean heavily on credentialing, but calling them only toll gates is too harsh. They also provide exposure to new fields, access to labs and mentors, and peer networks that are hard to replicate outside. That being said, the essay itself wanders and sometimes repeats points instead of driving the metaphor home. Tightening the structure would make the message stronger.

[dead]

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#57

Post by firesteelrain »

aaplok wrote: post #20

The elephant in the room here is that perhaps the biggest difference between the two learning experiences that OP is describing is himself. He might just have discovered he is more mature at 30 than he was at 18...

This resonates with me. BS in Computer Science starting when 18. All very overwhelming. Graduated with 3.0 GPA.

Twenty years later. More experienced, working as a software and systems engineer. Masters in Systems Engineering and achieved 4.0 GPA. College was easier.

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#58

Post by Ozzie_osman »

radialstub wrote: post #39
aaplok wrote: post #20

The elephant in the room here is that perhaps the biggest difference between the two learning experiences that OP is describing is himself. He might just have discovered he is more mature at 30 than he was at 18...

There is a difference between learning about things that you find interesting at your own pace, and learning about things that interest other people with tight deadlines. Even if I enjoy learning, there were absolutely courses that were just a waste of time.

100%. Learning with autonomy and choice is much more enjoyable (and there is lots of research to show it's more effective).

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#59

Post by Lu2025 »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #43

Makes me think of the "The purpose of a system is what it does" axiom. Universities were always about credentials whether professional or just to indicate social class. They can at the same time be places of learning, and many still are in some disciplines. The problem is that value of the credential is now worth more (to most people) than the value of the learning/knowledge. So universities adapted to the that model…

> employers across the economy who require applicants have 'university degrees'

Somebody from HR admitted to me that they often do it to simply trim the applicant pool to a more manageable size.

Re: Universities should be more than toll gates

#60

Post by Dumblydorr »

They’re so much more, sad the comments aren’t seeing it. Making lifelong friends, learning independence, true freedom to explore topics and interests, higher challenge and opportunity for scholars. The toll gate function only makes sense from a Birds Eye view.

If anything community colleges are more like toll gates. Pay a small fee to use a locally shared resource to then get your job.

Post reply on HN