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Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

lore.kernel.org

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Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#51

Post by kstrauser »

Hizonner wrote: post #23
jmillikin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's at least one proprietary platform that supports Git built by via a vendor-provided C compiler, but for which no public documentation exists and therefore no LLVM support is possible. Ctrl+F for "NonStop" in https://lwn.net/Articles/998115/

Sucks to be that platform? Seriously, I guess they just have to live without git if they're not willing to take on support for its tool chain. Nobody cares about NonStop but the very small number of people who use it... who are, by the way, very well capable of paying for it.

I strongly agree. I read some of the counter arguments, like this will make it too hard for NonStop devs to use git, and maybe make them not use it at all. Those don’t resonate with me at all. So what? What value does them using git provide to the git developers? I couldn’t care less if NonStop devs can use my own software at all. And since they’re exclusively at giant, well-financed corporations, they can crack open that wallet and pay someone to do the hard work if it means than much to them.

Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#52

Post by JoshTriplett »

arccy wrote: post #5
politelemon wrote: post #2

> Introducing Rust is impossible for some platforms and hard for others. Please could someone elaborate on this.

because the rust compiler just doesn't support some platforms (os / architecture combination)? RESF members tend to say it the other way around as in the platform doesn't support rust, but the reality is that it's the compiler that needs to support a platform, not the other way around.

Rust can't support a platform when that platform's vendors just provide a proprietary C compiler and nothing else (no LLVM, no GCC). Perhaps someone could reverse-engineer it, but ultimately a platform with zero support from any FOSS toolchain is unlikely to get Rust support anytime soon.

Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#53

Post by JoshTriplett »

DarkNova6 wrote: post #4
politelemon wrote: post #2

> Introducing Rust is impossible for some platforms and hard for others. Please could someone elaborate on this.

My understanding: As Rust is built on LLVM and not GCC, it is also limited to operating systems supporting LLVM. GCC simply supports more platforms.

Rust has a GCC backend as well, rustc_codegen_gcc. However, the NonStop platform just has a proprietary C compiler.

Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#54

Post by bArray »

Maybe I'm just old and moany, and I need to step aside for bigger and better things such as Rust.

But.

Now rather than needing to understand just C to work on Git/kernel, you now need to also know Rust. The toolchain complexity is increasing, and the mix of these languages increases the barrier to entry.

I'm highly invested into Git, having learned the tooling and having a significant number of projects constructed within it. I've written my own Git clients and have built a web server around Git repositories. I don't want to lose the hack-ability of Git.

Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#56

Post by GrayShade »

bArray wrote: post #54

Maybe I'm just old and moany, and I need to step aside for bigger and better things such as Rust. But. Now rather than needing to understand just C to work on Git/kernel, you now need to also know Rust. The toolchain complexity is increasing, and the mix of these languages increases the barrier to entry. I'm highly invested into Git, having learned the tooling and having a significant number of projects constructed w…

> I've written my own Git clients and have built a web server around Git repositories. I don't want to lose the hack-ability of Git.

And they will keep working because the repository format isn't affected by the language git is written in.

Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#57

Post by IshKebab »

bArray wrote: post #54

Maybe I'm just old and moany, and I need to step aside for bigger and better things such as Rust. But. Now rather than needing to understand just C to work on Git/kernel, you now need to also know Rust. The toolchain complexity is increasing, and the mix of these languages increases the barrier to entry. I'm highly invested into Git, having learned the tooling and having a significant number of projects constructed w…

> I'm just old and moany, and I need to step aside for bigger and better things such as Rust.

You are. This is firm "I don't want to have to learn new things" territory, which isn't a viable attitude in this industry.

In any case Rust is usually easier than C (excluding buggy C which is very easy to write), and certainly easier than actually learning the Git or Linux codebases.

Re: Git: Introduce Rust and announce it will become mandatory in the build system

#60

Post by johnisgood »

cschep wrote: post #37
monkeyelite wrote: post #29

How does this help me as a user of git?

My guess is that we (I am also a user of git) won't even notice.

I will leave this here for the future:

  $ ldd /usr/bin/git
          linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007f69c2d64000)
          libpcre2-8.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpcre2-8.so.0 (0x00007f69c2c81000)
          libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x00007f69c2c67000)
          libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0x00007f69c2616000)
          /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 => /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007f69c2d66000)
  $ ls -alh /usr/bin/git
  -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4.0M Aug 25 11:40 /usr/bin/git
I did not measure but it does not take long on my old hardware to compile git from scratch either, for now.
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