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Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

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Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#51

Post by yodafx »

breppp wrote: post #38
kalberg6429 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a disgustingly cynical and dishonest argument, a masterclass in colonial propaganda. You demand the people being crushed under a boot "take responsibility," while giving a pass to Zionists who have all the power and are the perpetrators responsible for it all. It's a sick moral inversion. You cry about a lack of peace while defending the Zionist entity that has demonstrated for a century that it is not intere…

You might call it a cynical colonial propaganda. However, I believe that someone who is so insistent on removing any agency from the Palestinians is actually someone who echos colonial propaganda. One of the historical motivations for colonialism is seeing the 'natives' as merely children without agency that need the benevolent west's help, which is the exact dehumanizing vibe applied whenever someone suggests Palest…

That is such an intellectually dishonest attempt to flip the script, accusing him of the very colonial racism your entire project is built on.

You are dishonestly confusing explaining the context of oppression with denying agency. Acknowledging that Palestinian resistance is a direct response to a century of your violence is the ultimate sign of respecting their agency. It is treating them as human beings who fight back. Demanding they politely submit to their own ethnic-cleansing and extermination is what treats them like objects.

And let's be clear about who is actually echoing colonial propaganda. The ideology that sees natives as less than human is yours. It's the ideology of Weizmann, who called the Palestinians "kushim" of "no value." Don't you dare project your project's inherent, documented racism onto others while you are defending a genocidal apartheid ethno-state.

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#52

Post by yodafx »

breppp wrote: post #48
kalberg6429 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point on purpose because the reality is indefensible. You talk about dead bodies because you can't talk about the ideology that outlived them. That's not a "metaphor", but a direct and documented political bloodline. The Irgun's violent, expansionist and terrorist ideology was channeled directly into the Herut party[0], which became the Likud party, which put the Irgun's commander, Menachem Begin,…

[flagged]

You call his analysis "shallow," but you are the one cherry-picking isolated facts from a deep and bloody history of Zionist terrorism. Let's look at the supposedly "complex" reality you're trying to whitewash.

You mention Begin's peace with Egypt. That was not about "peace" but a cynical, strategic move that took the biggest Arab army off the board so Zionists could invade Lebanon and accelerate the violent colonization of the West Bank.

Then you mention the Likud removing settlements from Gaza. That was Ariel Sharon's unilateral plan to turn Gaza into an open-air prison and, in the documented words of his own top advisor, "freeze the peace process indefinitely."[0]

These are not rejections of the Irgun's ideology. They are its most cunning applications. And your claim that the Dahiya Doctrine is "anachronistic" is nonsense, even Biden had the honesty to admit it when he recognized it.[1] It is the modern, state-sanctioned culmination of the Irgun's terrorist philosophy of collective punishment. Their ideology didn't vanish, it just became Israeli state policy. The only complexity in that is your attempt to whitewash it. It's a straight line, and you are deliberately trying to obscure it.

[0] https://www.haaretz.com/2004-10-06/ty-article/top-pm-aide-ga...

[1] "Biden takes a tougher stance on Israel’s ‘indiscriminate bombing’ of Gaza" https://apnews.com/article/biden-israel-hamas-oct-7-44c4229d...

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#53

Post by yodafx »

breppp wrote: post #47
kalberg6429 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It started with the Nakba I would suggest you read about the Hebron 1929 massacre which ethnically cleansed the largely non-zionist Hebron population

I would suggest you read about the context of events you're trying strip off its context. It didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a brutal outburst in the context of a British-backed colonial project that was openly planning to take over Palestine. At that point, Zionist colonialism was also in full force and the worst fears of the natives who resisted your colonialism were proven correct. It's like saying "I would suggest reading about the 1939 Bydgoszcz massacre in Poland against the German settlers" without providing any context as to why there were so many settlers there to begin with. The Nakba was the foundational event of the state of Israel and the source of the refugee crisis. That is the subject, and your desperate attempt to derail the conversation with that false equivalence was predictable.

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#54

Post by breppp »

rdtsc wrote: post #46
breppp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Irgun was forcibly integrated into the IDF, claiming dead and almost triggering a civil war. Something the Palestinians could never muster, and one of the reasons they are still in this position, stateless under the control of Hamas

> The Irgun was forcibly integrated into the IDF, claiming dead and almost triggering a civil war. So that means the terrorists, especially the leaders, were tried and punished for their crimes?

No, but it means twenty people died in the process of forcing them to disintegrate

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#55

Post by breppp »

yodafx wrote: post #53
breppp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It started with the Nakba I would suggest you read about the Hebron 1929 massacre which ethnically cleansed the largely non-zionist Hebron population

I would suggest you read about the context of events you're trying strip off its context. It didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a brutal outburst in the context of a British-backed colonial project that was openly planning to take over Palestine. At that point, Zionist colonialism was also in full force and the worst fears of the natives who resisted your colonialism were proven correct. It's like saying "I would sugg…

As everything it is complex, some might think that mass killings, rape, decapitations, and ethnic cleansing of a non zionist jewish population is not a valid reaction to legal zionist buying of land.

However, the poster above seemed to indicate "it all started with the Nakba" which is very wrong chronologically, and of course also predated the Hebron massacre

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#56

Post by breppp »

yodafx wrote: post #52
breppp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You call his analysis "shallow," but you are the one cherry-picking isolated facts from a deep and bloody history of Zionist terrorism. Let's look at the supposedly "complex" reality you're trying to whitewash. You mention Begin's peace with Egypt. That was not about "peace" but a cynical, strategic move that took the biggest Arab army off the board so Zionists could invade Lebanon and accelerate the violent coloniza…

[flagged]

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#57

Post by yodafx »

breppp wrote: post #55
yodafx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest you read about the context of events you're trying strip off its context. It didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a brutal outburst in the context of a British-backed colonial project that was openly planning to take over Palestine. At that point, Zionist colonialism was also in full force and the worst fears of the natives who resisted your colonialism were proven correct. It's like saying "I would sugg…

As everything it is complex, some might think that mass killings, rape, decapitations, and ethnic cleansing of a non zionist jewish population is not a valid reaction to legal zionist buying of land. However, the poster above seemed to indicate "it all started with the Nakba" which is very wrong chronologically, and of course also predated the Hebron massacre

[flagged]

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#58

Post by yodafx »

breppp wrote: post #56
yodafx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You call his analysis "shallow," but you are the one cherry-picking isolated facts from a deep and bloody history of Zionist terrorism. Let's look at the supposedly "complex" reality you're trying to whitewash. You mention Begin's peace with Egypt. That was not about "peace" but a cynical, strategic move that took the biggest Arab army off the board so Zionists could invade Lebanon and accelerate the violent coloniza…

[flagged]

After having your cherry-picked "facts" dismantled, your last resort is to feign intellectual superiority and pretend to be above the conversation. It's not a "childish" story of good versus evil. It's an analysis of cause and effect, which you are desperately trying to whitewash.

You claim you "struggle to see the connection" between the Irgun and the Dahiya Doctrine[1]. Let me make it simple for you, since you find reality so "complex." The Irgun's philosophy was to use terrorism against a civilian population to achieve a political goal. The Dahiya Doctrine is the state-sanctioned military policy of using disproportionate force against a civilian population to achieve a political goal.

It's the same ideology. It just evolved from primitive bombs to a state-funded air force. Your refusal to see this direct, documented line is not a sign of intellectual curiosity, but a Zionist's attempt at upholding an impossible cognitive dissonance.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#59

Post by breppp »

yodafx wrote: post #51
breppp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might call it a cynical colonial propaganda. However, I believe that someone who is so insistent on removing any agency from the Palestinians is actually someone who echos colonial propaganda. One of the historical motivations for colonialism is seeing the 'natives' as merely children without agency that need the benevolent west's help, which is the exact dehumanizing vibe applied whenever someone suggests Palest…

That is such an intellectually dishonest attempt to flip the script, accusing him of the very colonial racism your entire project is built on. You are dishonestly confusing explaining the context of oppression with denying agency. Acknowledging that Palestinian resistance is a direct response to a century of your violence is the ultimate sign of respecting their agency. It is treating them as human beings who fight b…

I am not confusing anything, you (or the other poster that shares your exact same style) wrote three paragraphs previously about how it is disallowed to attribute responsibility to the Palestinians.

That seems very racist to me, why would you think a people capable of conducting an attack such as was done on October 7, is incapable of choosing more peaceful leadership? Why even the mere thought of the Palestinians being able to affect their future amounts to heresy?

Removing agency from natives is the mark of colonial thought, and it is no surprise that western thought that is stuck in colonial times (post-colonialism) kept the old colonial racist stereotypes

Re: Count Folke Bernadotte: Sweden's Servant of Peace (2010)

#60

Post by yodafx »

breppp wrote: post #59
yodafx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is such an intellectually dishonest attempt to flip the script, accusing him of the very colonial racism your entire project is built on. You are dishonestly confusing explaining the context of oppression with denying agency. Acknowledging that Palestinian resistance is a direct response to a century of your violence is the ultimate sign of respecting their agency. It is treating them as human beings who fight b…

I am not confusing anything, you (or the other poster that shares your exact same style) wrote three paragraphs previously about how it is disallowed to attribute responsibility to the Palestinians. That seems very racist to me, why would you think a people capable of conducting an attack such as was done on October 7, is incapable of choosing more peaceful leadership? Why even the mere thought of the Palestinians be…

Another blatant reversal of reality. You are deliberately twisting my words. Acknowledging that Palestinian resistance is the direct, inevitable consequence of your century of colonial violence is not "removing agency." It is the ultimate respect for their agency. It treats them as human beings who refuse to be objects of your ethnic cleansing. The real colonial mindset is your demand that they must politely submit to their own extermination.

And your question about choosing "peaceful leadership" is nauseatingly cynical as it is ironic. You are defending a genocidal apartheid ethno-state whose own Prime Minister, Netanyahu, admitted on record that his strategy was to fund Hamas precisely to ensure Palestinians would never have a unified leadership capable of negotiating for a state.[1] You assassinate their diplomats, jail their leaders, and prop up Hamas, and then you have the audacity to blame them for how they resist your genocidal colonization campaign. Don't you dare project your colonial project's inherent, documented racism onto others. Your rhetoric is nothing but manipulative deflection and projection.

[1] https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-...

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