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US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

reuters.com

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Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#51

Post by yesiamracist »

tootie wrote: post #10
techpineapple wrote: post #2

I would say this is good to see on principle, but I assume which businesses they target will be decided through corruption and not data.

That presumes that this kind of enforcement is a net positive and I'm pretty convinced it isn't. The distinction between legal and illegal immigration is essentially arbitrary. Illegal immigration is not a crime of morality, it's basically one of economics. The legal framework theoretically is designed to produce an optimal outcome for the health and wealth of the nation and presently it is not doing that at all. We…

[flagged]

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#53

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

crooked-v wrote: post #42
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most lines are. It is a line we agreed on as a society. Just for a quick comparison, 21 is a legal drinking age in US ( going after less incendiary example just to prove a point ). But, and here is my subtle point, either those are real lines or there are not. If they are real, they should be enforced and if they are not, they should be nulled. Before I offer a reflexive response, I think it is worth to task a simple…

> why? Because without immigration, the population of the US will objectively shrink over time, and that's bad for both the country in the abstract and the personal welfare of the average middle class person as they reach old age.

Interesting, you do think the local populace is not capable of breeding? If so, can you point to the why? I might be leading you a little, but I promise only a little.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#54

Post by busterarm »

allannienhuis wrote: post #45
busterarm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything can be harvested with big machines. Pretty much all tree fruits, asparagus, peppers, etc are harvested by hand. If you want blueberries or strawberries that look nice enough to be sold to consumers whole, those are hand-harvested every time.

That last statement isn’t true. I know people with a blueberry farm that machine processes (with extra human qa step) blueberries packaged for retail sale.

You can do some casual searching and find that I'm right about this in most cases. If your prices are high enough you can tolerate a lot of waste, but for most farms the economics favor hand harvesting. We're talking about at least 20% waste when you're machine-harvesting and even then a significant amount of what ships to retail has internal bruising.

Maybe that farm is selling in an area where consumers are less choosey? I certainly prefer hand-harvested blueberries (and can tell the difference)...

Certainly machine harvesting is an increasing share of the market, but it is still predominantly hand-harvested.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#55

Post by MadnessASAP »

exabrial wrote: post #17
JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

It's probably not your intention, but I greatly dislike this argument, as it's similar ones were made to justify previous inhumane practices that were legal before the conclusion of the US Civil war. If manual labor is required for agriculture, let the market absorb the real cost and pay the workers the correct wage instead of exploiting them.

A countries agricultural base being dependent on undocumented migrant workers is bad and should be corrected. However simply deporting all the migrants overnight with no further action doesn't fix the underlying problem, doesn't help the industry, and doesn't help the consumers.

All things being equal, people will generally choose to follow the law. So figure out why the migrants and their employers are choosing not to follow the law and fix that.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#56

Post by rdm_blackhole »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

So you are saying that you are ok with people smugglers making a buck while encouraging foreign citizens to break the law just so we don't have to find solutions for this sort of problem?

It's the same story everywhere in Europe. When people say they want less migrants or illegal people in their country, the-pro immigration parties come out and ask the same sort of questions: who is going to care for the elderly, clean the toilets, take care of the kids, pick up the rubbish and so on?

As if, the only purpose of these migrants was to to do all the shit jobs nobody else wants to do. If it wasn't so vile and despicable, it would be laughable.

Here is a tip, if you want more people to do bad/hard jobs then the solution is not to encourage illegal immigration so that these people can be exploited, it is to raise the wage of these jobs so that people would actually consider doing them in the first place.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#57

Post by busterarm »

shrubble wrote: post #43
busterarm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything can be harvested with big machines. Pretty much all tree fruits, asparagus, peppers, etc are harvested by hand. If you want blueberries or strawberries that look nice enough to be sold to consumers whole, those are hand-harvested every time.

There are some things that are harvested by hand; even in those cases, you can watch a typical process and determine the small labor component. Asparagus for example is harvested in less than 20 seconds per bunch. Even at $50/hour that is a cost of less than 30 cents per bunch; which sells for how much in the store? 1000s of workers harvest over 9 billion pounds of apples every year-again the labor component is small…

Oh I agree with you. I'm not saying the labor component is necessarily expensive, I'm just stating the obvious that for many crops they are still human labor intensive.

Asparagus harvesting may be fast, but you have to do it every day. You have to keep people employed throughout the entire season. There isn't just a few-week harvesting period.

You can't just mechanize everything.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#58

Post by knowitnone2 »

whatshisface wrote: post #27
hilsdev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an American citizen had gotten the same job, they would be paying the same taxes

No, they would be paying lower net taxes. US citizens are eligible for government services.

where I live, illegals get government services whether they pay taxes or not. Welcome to socialism

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#59

Post by sugarpimpdorsey »

crooked-v wrote: post #49
hamdingers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No more strawberries/lettuce/etc when you kick out all the illegals!" has been a rallying cry on lefty social media for the last few years and it... hasn't happened? Why would it have happened? "All the illegals" have not been kicked out, so what are you basing this statement on? Bad faith framing.

It's already happening, and is part of the reason food prices are going up right now: https://www.newsweek.com/ice-immigration-raids-farms-crops-r...

And yet I go to the market every week and the shelves are stocked so full they have to throw out or donate the produce that starts to go bad.

That article puts forth the tired trope that "crops are rotting in the fields". If that was true or so extensive as they portray, the shelves would be empty, not simply more expensive. They're not.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#60

Post by bill_joy_fanboy »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

I told this exact argument to a supporter of deportation policies, and they responded with this:

"I don't care about higher grocery prices. I don't care about economic efficiency. I just want them gone."

I don't believe you understand their value system.

EDIT: In particular, an appeal to economic prosperity will not win an argument with someone who isn't basing their decisions on economics.

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