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Age verification doesn’t work

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Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#51

Post by anal_reactor »

ckbkr10 wrote: post #8

I wish there was a honest discussion, I am with them about parents not giving a shit and pushing away responsibility. The idea of supervision in education institutions is good as well. The kids in my family were well protected and supervised, they got into contact with hardcore porn at the age of 6 when other kids had access to smartphones and exposed them to it. I would like to see a honest discussion about the impa…

> I would like to see a honest discussion about the impact of porn on kids, I cannot really imagine that it doesn't distort the view and expectations on sex.

Honestly I'm really surprised that the generation that grew up on free access to internet porn and turned out fine is suddenly acting so prudish. As a kid I really believed that when my generation grows up, we'll be "the cool parents".

Of course porn distorted my view of sex, but let's be real - this damage is absolutely nothing compared to American family movies where a family of four with one adopted token black kid has a minor issue and then resolves it and everyone lives happily everafter. Those sold me the fantasy that as an adult I'd have lots of friends and a loving family and a satisfying job, and when none of that happened, I spent years feeling deep disappointment, which I still haven't processed.

Meanwhile hardcore porn I watched... look, that's the absolute least of issues I had as a kid. Growing up gay in a conservative country never gave me a chance to learn about proper relationships, I was immediately pushed into the underground world of hookups with shady people. Not to mention the plethora of other, unrelated issues, like constant bullying at school which nobody gave a fuck about, abusive parents, or ghetto community promoting criminal lifestyle. Or thinking even larger: what about whole generation that enters job market into recession, what about whole generation that will never build capital because they're trapped in a cycle of poverty, what about the constant fear that WW3 might be happening, what about social connections dissolving and people becoming more and more aggressive towards each other.

But those are difficult problems to tackle, so let's focus on kids seeing a naked titty instead. For sure that's a great use of our limited time.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#52

Post by edu »

ckbkr10 wrote: post #8

I wish there was a honest discussion, I am with them about parents not giving a shit and pushing away responsibility. The idea of supervision in education institutions is good as well. The kids in my family were well protected and supervised, they got into contact with hardcore porn at the age of 6 when other kids had access to smartphones and exposed them to it. I would like to see a honest discussion about the impa…

But from your own case, how do you protect your kids from other kids accessing hardcore porn at the age of 6? That would be a great argument in favour of blocking access unless age verification is provided so you reduce the chance of the "weakest link", otherwise as much as I can content block any device used by my kids the surface of having some other kid whose parent don't care/know how to block it would be enormous.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#53

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

jakobnissen wrote: post #21
ckbkr10 wrote: post #8

I wish there was a honest discussion, I am with them about parents not giving a shit and pushing away responsibility. The idea of supervision in education institutions is good as well. The kids in my family were well protected and supervised, they got into contact with hardcore porn at the age of 6 when other kids had access to smartphones and exposed them to it. I would like to see a honest discussion about the impa…

But kids (and adults) are exposed to all kinds of fantasies. War is not like Call of Duty. The Mafia is not like GTA. Monarchy is not like in the fairy tales. Romance is not like Twilight. BDSM is not like 50 Shades of Grey. For all these things, we rely on people's world experience and common sense to figure it out. I think it's pretty obvious that sex is not like porn, and I don't understand why so many people are…

It's different. One big part of the reason has already been said in sibling comments: taboo. Kids know that the huge jumps in martial arts movies are impossible because they jump when they play, they have seen their friends and classmates jump, they probably have tried flying kicks when playing so they get an idea of where the limits are. Nothing of this happens with sex, plus often they aren't exposed to anyone talking about it, except of course in porn.

The other part is the huge insecurities people have in this domain. You will meet a lot of people who aren't afraid to tell you that they dance like crap, or have no musical ear, or are in bad shape, etc.; but even if you meet people who talk about sex, no one is going to tell you that they last one minute in bed.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#54

Post by edu »

blitzar wrote: post #48
happymellon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they do things that are within their control. Such as mandatory site filtering options. So the same place you pay your bill, you can also set which sites you want to be blocked by an "admin" password. Or are they afraid that people will add tracking.facebook.com to the block list? The chances of the kids stealing the admin password are about as likely as the kids stealing your age verification password that…

Parents dont want to be the "bad guy" or parents in any real sense.

I think it's more the case that many parents are not tech savvy enough to even know that's possible or how to do it. Also, this create a safety net which seems too fragile, as you just need one family that doesn't do it to potentially expose all their friends.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#55

Post by nomilk »

blitzar wrote: post #34
general1465 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites) Am I only one who sees loophole in creating a social media site, which will be a porn site first? FaceHub or Pornbook.

It's called X.

X is one of the prohibited sites for under 16's in Australia (falls under 'social media'), but someone should seriously tell Elon about this, because it may work and would be hilarious.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#56

Post by Telemakhos »

delusional wrote: post #15
nomilk wrote: post #6

The choice citizens have now is between an 'internet licence' (submit ID's to myriad sites), or an 'internet tax' (VPN). Super annoying! Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites), the incentives hint this was strongly supported by legacy media (90% of Aussie media is owned by two companies, Newscorp and Nine Entertainment). The internet licence will make it diffi…

> of course, legacy sources are not affected - incidentally, they're probably more harmful than the prohibited sources What a silly idea. The modern world was built while traditional media existed. The decay and backsliding conicides with modern day social media. How does that point to traditional media being the culprit?

I don’t understand what “traditional media” means in this context. Before the internet, kids didn’t have access to porn. It just wasn’t there when I was growing up. I’m sure someone out there had 8mm or 16mm porn films, but I as a child had no clue where to find those, and the physical stores selling them were not accessible: I didn’t have transportation to them, and they checked ID at the door. I heard of Playboy through friends at school, but I had zero access to it myself. I don’t think that was unusual.

Today every eight year old can browse Motherless for free with the same tablet he uses to watch whatever slop it is parents let their kids watch instead of educating them. That’s not a difference between “legacy” and “modern” porn but between zero access and full access.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#57

Post by edu »

anal_reactor wrote: post #51
ckbkr10 wrote: post #8

I wish there was a honest discussion, I am with them about parents not giving a shit and pushing away responsibility. The idea of supervision in education institutions is good as well. The kids in my family were well protected and supervised, they got into contact with hardcore porn at the age of 6 when other kids had access to smartphones and exposed them to it. I would like to see a honest discussion about the impa…

> I would like to see a honest discussion about the impact of porn on kids, I cannot really imagine that it doesn't distort the view and expectations on sex. Honestly I'm really surprised that the generation that grew up on free access to internet porn and turned out fine is suddenly acting so prudish. As a kid I really believed that when my generation grows up, we'll be "the cool parents". Of course porn distorted m…

But I think a big difference is that while the current parent generation grow up with free access to internet, our access was limited usually to the family computer.

For us internet access was a bit of a ritual—find a computer and got some privacy. Or you could risk getting caught at the computer lab.

Now, the internet is ubiquitous and many kids have access to connected devices all the time (computers, tablets, smartphones) and it's harder to overview their use.

Also, the amount of content and extreme content available has exploded.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#58

Post by Freak_NL »

general1465 wrote: post #29
nomilk wrote: post #6

The choice citizens have now is between an 'internet licence' (submit ID's to myriad sites), or an 'internet tax' (VPN). Super annoying! Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites), the incentives hint this was strongly supported by legacy media (90% of Aussie media is owned by two companies, Newscorp and Nine Entertainment). The internet licence will make it diffi…

> Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites) Am I only one who sees loophole in creating a social media site, which will be a porn site first? FaceHub or Pornbook.

FetLife? It exists, and is subject to the same laws and regulations. Any legal site will have to comply to a load of regulations, supplemented by the inscrutable rules laid down by Visa and Mastercard.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#59

Post by edu »

txrx0000 wrote: post #26

It's much easier to implement user-configurable client-side filters at the application and OS level than censor the entire Internet. But of course that's not what it's about. Online age verification and content moderation was never about protecting anyone. It's about controlling the masses and tricking them into believing that it's for their own good.

I agree that client-side filters would be a great solution, but I see two issues there:

1) Not everybody would know how to do it 2) This creates a weakest link problem, where in a class of say 15 kids, just having one with a non-blocked device would allow for all to see.

I don't know what would be good solution, maybe something intermediate... for example, filtering at the ISP level and making it mandatory for them to inform and request the settings for all their customers? Just a form, so they can block it. But then, maybe I want to block porn for my underage kids but not for me or my partner.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#60

Post by edu »

prmoustache wrote: post #45

It is not like kids/teenager who currently visit the big porn sites like pornhub will say: "Oh I can't, let's read a book instead" They'll just get it somewhere else, private chatrooms, torrents, etc and from probably even less regulated and more nefarious sources that also serve stuff super hardcore or completely illegal.

But it will be harder for them, the same way it's harder to get alcohol if you don't have a proper ID, and just that will prevent a good number of them of accessing it or at least accessing it in a regular way.
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