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FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

theguardian.com

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Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#51

Post by yoyohello13 »

standardUser wrote: post #48
PieTime wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve asked myself why my grandparents did not try to overthrow their Nazi regime. They were not the most immoral people on the surface, they just viewed their actions happening as the only way of survival. I think the answer lies in seeing what really happening instead of what’s portrayed as happening on their propaganda outlets. Articles like this start to transition people away from supporting fascism if they are b…

I will say that, having grown up in the 80's and 90's far removed from the fascist states of yesteryear, it was always baffling how Western nations succumbed so completely to authoritarianism. I am not longer baffled.

I’m seeing it happen in real time and am still baffled. I realize now there are groups of people with perceptions of reality so different from mine they are basically akin to an alien species.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#52

Post by xracy »

nomel wrote: post #43
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The facts start at the beginning: - the actual US attorney for the area was pressured to resign from Republicans (Trump) - Republicans put in a guy with 0 legal experience who was previously working for a political group. Said guy also wanted the US government overthrown on January 6th as he supports the insurrectionists. This is also the guy who supports the Republican's attempt to illegally erase the 14th amendment…

> nor criminal IANAL, but it appears to be criminal: 18 U.S.C. 111 This does not appear to be covered under "peaceful protest": https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights

you're quoting a lot of legal code for someone starting all of their posts with "IANAL"

The point of commenting IANAL, is that legal code is complicated. The ACLU is likely giving "best-practices", but that's not legal code. It's guidelines.

This feels pretty first-amendment to me, but I have little doubt that SCOTUS would think that people's first-amendment rights are less important than the Gov't's ability to do what it's doing.

I just also think that SCOTUS is wrong and full of very political actors who are grossly partial towards the current administration.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#53

Post by xracy »

standardUser wrote: post #4

The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rule of law continues to shock me.

Stop being shocked, and start pushing back. Everyone is looking around for someone else to acknowledge that something is up (like a baby that just hit its head), and everyone needs to start crying.

People in the US do not have due process rights. I can confidently say this, because if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#54

Post by standardUser »

xracy wrote: post #53
standardUser wrote: post #4

The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rule of law continues to shock me.

Stop being shocked, and start pushing back. Everyone is looking around for someone else to acknowledge that something is up (like a baby that just hit its head), and everyone needs to start crying. People in the US do not have due process rights. I can confidently say this, because if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights.

> if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights.

By your logic, no one has due process rights in this country.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#55

Post by xracy »

standardUser wrote: post #54
xracy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop being shocked, and start pushing back. Everyone is looking around for someone else to acknowledge that something is up (like a baby that just hit its head), and everyone needs to start crying. People in the US do not have due process rights. I can confidently say this, because if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights.

> if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights. By your logic, no one has due process rights in this country.

Yeah... I said that? Idk what country you're in, but I definitely said that immediately before the thing you're quoting from me

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#56

Post by maxlybbert »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #13
mrinterweb wrote: post #11

"Conspiracy to Impede or Injure Officers" seems like a pretty broad category, and should be separate things. Conspiracy to impede is one thing. That might be applied to planning to be at a protest where you may be in the way of an officer. Injuring is a very different thing. Conflating the two into a single charge seems disproportionate. This conflation seems intentional to give an excuse to just round up anyone who…

Conspiracy to impede is unconstitutional, as people in the US have the right to peacefully assemble. If cops decide to illegally break up a protest, then they can say "oh you're impending me!" and no one actually has a 1st amendment right.

The fact that Americans have a right to peaceful assembly doesn’t mean that every non-violent assembly is legal ( https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-7-3-1/A... , last sentence):

“the government may impose reasonable restrictions on the time, place, or manner of protected speech, provided the restrictions ‘are justified without reference to the content of the regulated speech, that they are narrowly tailored to serve a significant governmental interest, and that they leave open ample alternative channels for communication of the information.’”

People complain about this all the time (“free speech zones”) but it’s been the law for decades.

See also https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights .

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#57

Post by AstralStorm »

maxlybbert wrote: post #56
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy to impede is unconstitutional, as people in the US have the right to peacefully assemble. If cops decide to illegally break up a protest, then they can say "oh you're impending me!" and no one actually has a 1st amendment right.

The fact that Americans have a right to peaceful assembly doesn’t mean that every non-violent assembly is legal ( https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-7-3-1/A... , last sentence): “the government may impose reasonable restrictions on the time, place, or manner of protected speech, provided the restrictions ‘are justified without reference to the content of the regulated speech, that they are narrowly…

What does a reasonable restriction make is up to the court to decide, not cops, and definitely not some federal agency.

There's a lot of precedent too, I'm sure.

So yeah, there's no real way to know ahead of time if any protest is or is not legal or legally impeded. That's not the case with continental law where it's defined ahead of time.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#58

Post by xtiansimon »

I’m passively auditing articles and IG reports on federal arrest, indictment, protests, and military action on US citizens.

In this mode I’m asking myself, What’s being reported here. Is it same as previous stories or different?

This story features a citizen, participating in a protest. That’s not unusual. What is unusual is a federal arrest 30 days after the event.

I’m not saying this as fact of arrests (could be happening a lot for all I know), but only in terms of what is reported. And when you watch the videos of someone who gets in the face of law enforcement (I can’t see the video on the gift link, so I’m going by descriptions) invariably they are pulled offline and taken down by 4-6 police. Police are taking any physical interaction as assault and arresting people on the spot. (Maybe the police were overwhelmed or afraid this veteran would hurt them compared to the women I see shoved and dragged in IG videos).

Also, why 30 days later? The person who would have had the responsibility to arrest and charge resigned, and their replacement is reportedly unqualified?

As a citizen who has the right to protest (1st amendment), I’m not thinking that the government is taking names. Now I am, which is possibly the point.

AND! The president is calling for the end of No-Cash Bail. Do you see the chilling effect potential?

Not to mention the hypocrisy/asymmetry of January 6th as an event of obvious violent obstruction of federal procedure (every accusation is a confession). This arrest is notable in comparison to other reported arrests.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#59

Post by maxlybbert »

AstralStorm wrote: post #57
maxlybbert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Americans have a right to peaceful assembly doesn’t mean that every non-violent assembly is legal ( https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-7-3-1/A... , last sentence): “the government may impose reasonable restrictions on the time, place, or manner of protected speech, provided the restrictions ‘are justified without reference to the content of the regulated speech, that they are narrowly…

What does a reasonable restriction make is up to the court to decide, not cops, and definitely not some federal agency. There's a lot of precedent too, I'm sure. So yeah, there's no real way to know ahead of time if any protest is or is not legal or legally impeded. That's not the case with continental law where it's defined ahead of time.

I think the ACLU’s advice (which I linked to) is pretty clear about how to organize a legal protest. Sometimes the goal is to get arrested, but if you want to avoid that, then it’s not hard to do.

Re: FBI arrests US Army veteran for 'conspiracy' over protest against ICE

#60

Post by anonfordays »

krapp wrote: post #26
onetimeusename wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>There was large scale mass migration into the country that appeared to be facilitated by the last administration. Did you forget to specify "illegal" migration in regards to this conspiracy theory or did the mask just slip here?

No need to be any more specific. The only mass migration into the country over the past decade that appeared to be facilitated by the last admimistration was an illegal one.
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