The great medieval water myth (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)

#51

Post by firesteelrain » Tue, Aug 26, 2025, 7:13 PM UTC

IAmBroom wrote: post #47

firesteelrain wrote: post #23

Something to ponder Beer and wine, watered down, are medieval forms of soft drinks. People simply got tired of just drinking boring water. On top of that, you got a little buzz or it made you feel good like a soft drink might

Ironically, you almost can't get a buzz from small ales. I drank nothing but a homebrew small ale one hot August day, to test the theory. No buzz. Now, beer consumed for recreational purposes certainly had effects!

Nice data point!

Maybe it’s just like a soft drink then

Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)

#52

Post by raffael_de » Wed, Aug 27, 2025, 9:05 AM UTC

IAmBroom wrote: post #41

raffael_de wrote: post #17

The relevance of beer with regard to water conservation and safe consumption is _not_ because the alcohol sterilizes the fluid. It's because successfully brewed and unfiltered beer forms a relatively stable ecosystem of unproblematic yeasts and lactic acid bacteria which prevent other unsafe micro organisms to take over and multiply. The hop is actually contributing to chemical conservation, though.

I'm not clear what you mean by "contributing to chemical conservation". They don't conserve anything, really. Hops are antibiotic and antifungal in nature. That, combined with their mild flavor (compared to things like wormwood), is why they are synonymous with beer production today.

hops being "antibiotic and antifungal in nature" "contributes to chemical conservation". (?)

Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)

#53

Post by swasheck » Thu, Aug 28, 2025, 3:58 PM UTC

IAmBroom wrote: post #45

swasheck wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also, recalling from memory, standedge argues that the early perspective on wine was that it was simply a higher order of beer. it makes sense because there earliest beers were not hopped and would probably profile similarly to wine. however, grape cultivation was more difficult/technical than grain cultivation which elevated the class of wine. it was also prized for its relative stability when diluted, with some mai…

No, the ancients tended to be very exact with their beer/wine distinctions. There's separate English words for beer, wine, mead, herbed beer, herbed mead, fruited mead, cider, fruited cider, and so one.

that's really good information. do you have sources on that? i was just citing the one i'd read but i'm happy to learn more - i'm fascinated by these sorts of things.

Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)

#54

Post by swasheck » Thu, Aug 28, 2025, 4:00 PM UTC

ralferoo wrote: post #20

swasheck wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also, recalling from memory, standedge argues that the early perspective on wine was that it was simply a higher order of beer. it makes sense because there earliest beers were not hopped and would probably profile similarly to wine. however, grape cultivation was more difficult/technical than grain cultivation which elevated the class of wine. it was also prized for its relative stability when diluted, with some mai…

> ... when diluted 1:2 water:wine. it was a true show of wealth to serve wine that was less than 1:1. Did you mean 2:1 water:wine? If you meant 1:2 water:wine, then 1:1 would be weaker and I'm not sure how that would show wealth more than stronger wine.

i definitely phrased it awkwardly (and incorrectly, upon the 3rd read) and, upon re-reading it, it is confusing to me as well

i was trying to say that i read that it was a show of wealth to serve wine that was less than 50% diluted, but that the norm was to serve 1 part wine to 2 parts water. thank you for the clarification.

Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)

#55

Post by eadmund » Fri, Aug 29, 2025, 3:45 AM UTC

IAmBroom wrote: post #43

eadmund wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always thought it quite weird that somehow by virtue of being in beer, that the water somehow becomes sterilised. The reason that water in beer is sterilised is that beer is brewed — i.e. boiled. > If you've ever tried home brewing, you'll know that non-sterile conditions lead to foul rancid filth due to all the bacteria etc. I believe that pre–germ-theory brewing practices tended to discourage unwanted microbial…

Again, beer isn't boiled - as long as we're quashing myths here. It is heated.

> Again, beer isn't boiled - as long as we're quashing myths here. It is heated.

I think that you are confused. Mashing is used to convert the starches in malted barley into sugars, and is done at temperatures below under boiling (well, with decoction mashes a portion of the mash is boiled, but the mash as a whole is not). But then the sweet wort produced from mashing is pulled off, hops are added and the wort is — yes — boiled, typically for quite awhile, and generally quite vigourously. Then the wort is chilled, yeast is pitched in and it ferments.

The brewing process most definitely involves boiling in every beer style I am aware of. It’s definitely possible that there is some style out there which doesn’t do it, of course, but the vast, vast majority are.