Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 642 posts

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#51

Post by SirMaster »

potatolicious wrote: post #33
SirMaster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>despite having already launched service in several other cities. Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do? For example the first thing I can think of new for New York is snow and ice. It's my understanding that self-driving cars don't really account their acceleration and braking for roads that could sometimes be very slippery due to s…

> "Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do?" New requirements come up all the time in technology. The existence of a new requirement isn't in and of itself justification for skepticism - is there a particular reason to believe that Waymo is not capable of solving for the new requirement? The answer may be yes, but simply "ahah! It woul…

>I'll throw this out there: your human-driven car already accounts for acceleration and braking on slippery roads, without the need for the human. Traction control systems and electronic stability control systems exist! They're in fact incredibly common on modern cars.

These systems don't help with the problems I am talking about.

You have to drive completely differently in heavy snow, significantly slower, brake sooner, turn less sharp, accelerate much slower, leave significantly larger gaps, leave space to move out of the way and be ready to move if someone behind you is coming at you too fast and can't stop in time, etc. I've spend my entire life in the midwest.

The traction control system in my 2023 camry didn't help one bit when I applied the brakes on black ice and the car didn't react at all, it just kept sliding at the same speed across the ice.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#52

Post by massung »

I haven’t lived in NYC, but I have lived in Boston. Isn’t the real concern winter? Has Waymo (or any other self driving tech company) shown that it can handle the snow well: non-visible lanes, downshifting to avoid braking, etc.?

Definitely interested in how this turns out.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#53

Post by bryanlarsen »

potatolicious wrote: post #33
SirMaster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>despite having already launched service in several other cities. Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do? For example the first thing I can think of new for New York is snow and ice. It's my understanding that self-driving cars don't really account their acceleration and braking for roads that could sometimes be very slippery due to s…

> "Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do?" New requirements come up all the time in technology. The existence of a new requirement isn't in and of itself justification for skepticism - is there a particular reason to believe that Waymo is not capable of solving for the new requirement? The answer may be yes, but simply "ahah! It woul…

The interesting snow & ice problem for me is that humans will drive in winter conditions that are unsafe -- for example white-out blizzards. Robocars won't be able to drive in a white-out blizzard, so they'll likely refuse to do so. Humans should also refuse to drive, but people drive anyways.

NYC doesn't generally get white-out blizzards, so refusing to drive in them is quite feasible.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#54

Post by QuantumSeed »

vinkelhake wrote: post #25

I live in the bay and occasionally ride Waymo in SF and I pretty much always have a good time. I visited NYC a few weeks ago and was instantly reminded of how much the traffic fucking sucks :) While I was there I actually thought of Waymo and how they'd have to turn up the "aggression" slider up to 11 to get anything done there. I mean, could you imagine the audacity of actually not driving into an intersection when…

I was in a Waymo in SF last weekend riding from the Richmond district to SOMA, and the car actually surprised me by accelerating through two yellow lights. It was exactly what I would have done. So it seems the cars are able to dial up the assertiveness when appropriate.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#55

Post by fragmede »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #3

It's fascinating seeing all the comments elsewhere anytime Waymo starts testing in another city along the lines of, "ah, but how will they handle X, Y, and Z here?? Checkmate, robots!" despite having already launched service in several other cities. Granted, NYC is the biggest city in the US, so maybe that sort of reaction is more reasonable there than when people in Dallas or Boston do it.

What I don't get about the "checkmate robots" mentality is that, like, get it working in sunny California with no snow, and then get it working in the snow, seems like the way to do it, not, solve all possible problems before anyone knows you're even trying and can make fun of you.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#56

Post by miltonlost »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #36
setgree wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emergency, block the box, roll through a stop sign — buddy that’s a ticket. Do it enough and we’ll impound your car.” Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends…

NYPD cops don't like enforcing traffic violations: https://i.redd.it/w6es37v1sqpc1.png (License holders and drivers on the road are up in the same period that summonses are down, too. Traffic is up since pre-covid.) Now that I live in Toronto we face the same challenges. Politicians may introduce traffic laws to curb dangers and nuisances from drivers, but police refuse to enforce them. As they don't live in the city…

Part of the problem is we have police doing far too many jobs. We need to separate out traffic enforcement, mental health responses, and other works into their own focused units. Especially the mental health responses, as far too often police refuse to or (at best) don't know how to de-escalate in those situations.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#58

Post by bryanlarsen »

SirMaster wrote: post #51
potatolicious wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do?" New requirements come up all the time in technology. The existence of a new requirement isn't in and of itself justification for skepticism - is there a particular reason to believe that Waymo is not capable of solving for the new requirement? The answer may be yes, but simply "ahah! It woul…

>I'll throw this out there: your human-driven car already accounts for acceleration and braking on slippery roads, without the need for the human. Traction control systems and electronic stability control systems exist! They're in fact incredibly common on modern cars. These systems don't help with the problems I am talking about. You have to drive completely differently in heavy snow, significantly slower, brake soo…

That all sounds like something that should be easier for a robot to do than the typical human. If programmed for how to drive in heavy snow, a robot should be able to switch driving modes much easier than the typical human brain.

Waymo has been trained in Buffalo NY for winter conditions, unlike most NYC drivers.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#59

Post by kingkawn »

darth_avocado wrote: post #39
phkahler wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> could you imagine the audacity of actually not driving into an intersection when the light is yellow and you know you're going to block the crossing traffic? I wonder how many Waymos following the rules would be needed to reduce gridlock.

Waymo in SF pretty much drives like a human, and that includes doing human things like cutting lanes, stopping wherever it feels like, driving in the bus lane etc. I think it’ll be fine in NYC

SF traffic is but a single speck of nyc

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#60

Post by kingkawn »

testfrequency wrote: post #24
TulliusCicero wrote: post #3

It's fascinating seeing all the comments elsewhere anytime Waymo starts testing in another city along the lines of, "ah, but how will they handle X, Y, and Z here?? Checkmate, robots!" despite having already launched service in several other cities. Granted, NYC is the biggest city in the US, so maybe that sort of reaction is more reasonable there than when people in Dallas or Boston do it.

Since Waymo is very reliable in LA and SF, you will be just fine in NYC. Your grid system is far less of a challenge than the amount of hills, twists, narrow streets and low visibility back streets in California. I genuinely think the most complicated challenge for Waymo in NYC will be…winter snow and ice.

LA and SF are not close to close to the complexity of nyc traffic and pedestrian culture
Post reply on HN