Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates • Hacker News Board

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#51

Post by foobarian » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:42 PM UTC

dgacmu wrote: post #35

foobarian wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started a tomato patch in MA early on this season but they hardly grew and are just now delivering fruit. Are they negatively impacted by high temperatures? This is the first time I have a plot in full sun, and all instructions point to tomatos doing well in full sun, but I wonder if the sun was a bit too full this season :-D

1) did you start them indoors or buy seedlings? Getting a late start could delay things. 2) did you water them enough? 3) did you have good holes for them? Tomatoes do well if they can root deeply - giving them a 2-3' deep hole filled with good soil and compost helps. 4) cages: indeterminate tomatoes can grow huge, So give them a cage with plenty of space - the crap little cages you get at Home Depot do not suffice.…

Thanks for these insights!

I did get seedlings this season, and even planted them mid May. I thought I did pretty well not being late this year.

The only thing I can think of is not enough water; I had a thick layer (1-2 inch) of straw for mulch, and figured that would let me water less frequently. (Though I did do a finger check every few days).

Interesting you mention the cherries; it's the only plant with fruit even this late in the season. The others are assorted regular size varieties like Cherokee or other heirloomy types.

(edit: correction: it was mythrwy in the sibling comment that mentioned the cherry tomatoes! Thank you as well.)

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#52

Post by ethanpailes » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:46 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #30

lumost wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the proposed mechanism for implementing a cut back? A global population with 8 billion people and 1950s carbon emissions implies an average living standard somewhere in the realm of the 1900s. Are you volunteering to move back to the horse and buggy? Bear in mind that the industrialized world of 1950 was only inhabited by a small portion of the global population at most a billion people. The only path forward…

We could start by banning things that explicitly waste resources such as proof of work cryptocurrency and adjust tax incentives to punish huge energy consumers for things like AI. Make the energy cost factor in the long-term externalities and maybe companies will hesitate before burning the world for things that aren't necessary. Things don't have to be perfect - you start with the biggest polluters/consumers and use…

China turning the corner on emissions has far more to do with their desire to get out from under the possibility of an oil blockade locking up their economy than green pressure from the west. They also organically have an environmental movement, though not one that they are willing to kowtow to at the cost of growth.

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#53

Post by bix6 » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

dingnuts wrote: post #29

bix6 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer yeah. I can get everywhere I need on my bike so horse and buggy would give me enough range and prevent all the over touristing.

there are many problems with this attitude but even bicycles require industrial processes and trade to maintain. Mainly the tires but if anything breaks the metallurgy for the spokes wouldn't be available

Sure there are also many problems with saying only tech can fix all our issues. Tech is the reason we have all these issues in the first place. People survived just fine in teepees. Some might even say they lived a better life before the tech (guns) and non-native disease enabled by tech (travel) wiped them out. Swap the bike for a horse then. All you need for that is wild food and people who care about animals.

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#54

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:53 PM UTC

anon84873628 wrote: post #50

mythrwy wrote: post #15

You can, if you keep them cool with shade and water if it's not excessively humid. I practice zone denial with a shade house and have things like rhubarb, cilantro and lettuce growing right now. It's been over 100F many days this summer and these would not make it outside. I also have many varieties of tomatoes and pretty sure I'm the only one the region who does because they would not set fruit outside in these temp…

Well ok, if you modify the environment to have a different climate then you can grow things that grow in that modified climate... I don't know why the post title doesn't include the "Why" prefix from the source. Which is really a botany explanation rather than simple horticultural complaint.

Agreed. But I saw an opportunity to show off my awesome tomatoes! (which would not grow here without shade).

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#55

Post by keyringlight » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:53 PM UTC

ethanpailes wrote: post #52

Arainach wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could start by banning things that explicitly waste resources such as proof of work cryptocurrency and adjust tax incentives to punish huge energy consumers for things like AI. Make the energy cost factor in the long-term externalities and maybe companies will hesitate before burning the world for things that aren't necessary. Things don't have to be perfect - you start with the biggest polluters/consumers and use…

China turning the corner on emissions has far more to do with their desire to get out from under the possibility of an oil blockade locking up their economy than green pressure from the west. They also organically have an environmental movement, though not one that they are willing to kowtow to at the cost of growth.

Another factor for China was their cities choking on smog. One of the anecdotes I remember from Covid was that mask wearing in Asian cities was just another thing you did depending on that aspect of the weather, except in 2020 it had another reason behind it.

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#56

Post by keyringlight » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:58 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #30

lumost wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the proposed mechanism for implementing a cut back? A global population with 8 billion people and 1950s carbon emissions implies an average living standard somewhere in the realm of the 1900s. Are you volunteering to move back to the horse and buggy? Bear in mind that the industrialized world of 1950 was only inhabited by a small portion of the global population at most a billion people. The only path forward…

We could start by banning things that explicitly waste resources such as proof of work cryptocurrency and adjust tax incentives to punish huge energy consumers for things like AI. Make the energy cost factor in the long-term externalities and maybe companies will hesitate before burning the world for things that aren't necessary. Things don't have to be perfect - you start with the biggest polluters/consumers and use…

I think a cap on what consumption you're allowed until you can prove utility to society would be beneficial. That said, with crypto it was distributed so it'd be extremely hard to enforce, and using the example of how AI has played out there's companies willing and able to dump money speculating on it just so they don't lose out if it does bear fruit. I expect for anything in future that shows potential they can organize themselves around regulations faster than new rules and enforcement could adapt.

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#57

Post by anon84873628 » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 3:59 PM UTC

exoverito wrote: post #47

Arainach wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could start by banning things that explicitly waste resources such as proof of work cryptocurrency and adjust tax incentives to punish huge energy consumers for things like AI. Make the energy cost factor in the long-term externalities and maybe companies will hesitate before burning the world for things that aren't necessary. Things don't have to be perfect - you start with the biggest polluters/consumers and use…

Disturbingly authoritarian impulses for a dubious prescription. The climate goes through natural cycles, we are actually coming out of a global temperature low after the ice age. Cold eras are actually far more dangerous throughout human history, for example the Little Ice Age during the Dark Ages which caused widespread crop failures and famine in Europe. Warm eras are correlated with the golden ages of civilization…

>Warm eras are correlated with the golden ages of civilizations

Yeah, and hot eras kill civilizations. There's a famous one called the 4.2 kiloyear event. Does modern mesopotamia seem like a great place for the birthplace of agriculture?

I don't necessarily agree with the parent's politics, but you seem to be completely ignoring the categorical difference of CO2 emissions and associated risks of climate tipping points to our civilization.

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#58

Post by cityofdelusion » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 4:01 PM UTC

manoDev wrote: post #27

lumost wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the proposed mechanism for implementing a cut back? A global population with 8 billion people and 1950s carbon emissions implies an average living standard somewhere in the realm of the 1900s. Are you volunteering to move back to the horse and buggy? Bear in mind that the industrialized world of 1950 was only inhabited by a small portion of the global population at most a billion people. The only path forward…

“Horse and buggy”. How dramatic. If at least the US got in line with the rest of the world, we would be half-way there. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita The problem is not the 8 billion people, is the handful that have an disproportionate impact.

Disingenuous. Here is the correct chart to link if you want to assert emissions by country: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#59

Post by dgacmu » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 4:06 PM UTC

foobarian wrote: post #51

dgacmu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) did you start them indoors or buy seedlings? Getting a late start could delay things. 2) did you water them enough? 3) did you have good holes for them? Tomatoes do well if they can root deeply - giving them a 2-3' deep hole filled with good soil and compost helps. 4) cages: indeterminate tomatoes can grow huge, So give them a cage with plenty of space - the crap little cages you get at Home Depot do not suffice.…

Thanks for these insights! I did get seedlings this season, and even planted them mid May. I thought I did pretty well not being late this year. The only thing I can think of is not enough water; I had a thick layer (1-2 inch) of straw for mulch, and figured that would let me water less frequently. (Though I did do a finger check every few days). Interesting you mention the cherries; it's the only plant with fruit ev…

Agreeing with you and mythrwy: in Pittsburgh, our cherry tomatoes have been gonzo the last few years and our heirlooms have been only middling productive.

Which is annoying because they're so much more work to cook with. :)

Re: Why you can’t grow cool-climate plants in hot climates

#60

Post by lazide » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 4:07 PM UTC

oorza wrote: post #49

tcoff91 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment anyone tries anything on that scale of geoengineering, they will immediately be blamed for whatever weather-based natural disasters that follow. I just don’t see how this can work without creating massive diplomatic tensions.

I mean, if I had Elon Musk money, I'd build some kind of giant carbon capture mechanism. Perhaps I'd buy the largest basalt quarry I could find and start sequestering carbon at a planetary scale. It would cost a ton of money, but I'd do it in secret. If it worked, eventually it would show up on the scales, and I'd emerge from the shadows. This particular method of carbon capture could potentially work at a planetary…

I think you don’t understand the true scale of the problem. Just the additional fossil carbon being put in the atmosphere by the US alone is trillions of KG/yr.

Not only is there no way to hide trying to do something about it at that scale, there is no single site (or even multiple sites) that could handle that amount of sequestration - we’re talking hundreds.

And even Elon Musk could not afford it, even if he dumped everything he had into it.