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Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

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Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#51

Post by coro_1 »

testdelacc1 wrote: post #8

Assuming they’re telling the truth, they’ve successfully built one chip from that fab. That’s good, but it doesn’t mean the fab is capable of manufacturing at scale while turning a profit. They need an external customer for the fab so they can iterate and work out the issues. It’s anyone’s guess if someone trusts intel to manufacture on their behalf instead of sticking with an established player. They’re stuck in a c…

The foundries they're putting together for future manufacturing are just hoping customers will comes. Intel needs partnerships because the brand isn't the same since the core founders and builders are long gone.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#53

Post by cameron_b »

I understand the part where Intel is trying to get external customers interested in the output of their fab by exhibiting an implementation of an ARM processor.

In the past I understand that they did some custom implementation of Xeon cores for hyperscalers, but the meat and potatoes was the chip they designed.

Do we take this to mean that the current leadership assess the value proposition -of Intel- to be in the /making/ of the chips, akin to TSMC, and not in the /designing/ of them, as in all past seasons at Intel?

I suppose a key factor here is how far from reference this chip is. If they mean to innovate in ARM ISA territory, that's a development to ponder. But if this is a "we can also make those things" statement, I'm hearing bears in the woods.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#54

Post by roboror »

blackoil wrote: post #6
threatripper wrote: post #4

If we assume that intel gets successful with 18A with their x86 processors, would they even have the money to finance the node after that? And the node after that which gets exponentially more expensive? In the past x86 raked in enough money to burn a lot of it on new fab tech but non-x86 has grown immensely and floods TSMC with money. The problem for intel is that their fab tech was fitted to their processor archite…

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

Yep, that's exactly what they did with TSMC. Foundries don't just build massive production lines and hope someone will use them, even TSMC.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#55

Post by dagmx »

cameron_b wrote: post #53

I understand the part where Intel is trying to get external customers interested in the output of their fab by exhibiting an implementation of an ARM processor. In the past I understand that they did some custom implementation of Xeon cores for hyperscalers, but the meat and potatoes was the chip they designed. Do we take this to mean that the current leadership assess the value proposition -of Intel- to be in the /m…

The fabs need external customers not just intel to be profitable.

The custom designs for hyperscalars don’t count as external customers, they’re just part of Intels own production set.

And since nobody but AMD or VIA can make x86, it has to be ARM or other ISAs instead.

The article title is a bit clickbait since ARM is the eventuality of having external customers. The real key point is that they have made chips that aren’t their own at all.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#56

Post by theFco »

cameron_b wrote: post #53

I understand the part where Intel is trying to get external customers interested in the output of their fab by exhibiting an implementation of an ARM processor. In the past I understand that they did some custom implementation of Xeon cores for hyperscalers, but the meat and potatoes was the chip they designed. Do we take this to mean that the current leadership assess the value proposition -of Intel- to be in the /m…

As I understand it, Intel's strength was in manufacturing their own design in their exclusive (and most advanced) process. So the advantage was being vertically integrated. State of the art processes are too expensive these days. x86 CPUs alone cannot sustain them. Specially, when AMD builds their CPU also with state of the art processes. So by becoming a foundry, Intel may be able to have state of the art fabs and use it in their own designs of x86 CPUs, GPUs, etc.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#57

Post by LarMachinarum »

blackoil wrote: post #6
threatripper wrote: post #4

If we assume that intel gets successful with 18A with their x86 processors, would they even have the money to finance the node after that? And the node after that which gets exponentially more expensive? In the past x86 raked in enough money to burn a lot of it on new fab tech but non-x86 has grown immensely and floods TSMC with money. The problem for intel is that their fab tech was fitted to their processor archite…

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

I wouldn't count on either to save Intel as it still is (i.e with the fab business still attached to the CPU/GPU business). While it's true that having Intel fabs as a second source would be nice for them to alleviate the dependency on TSMC, they are also competing with Intel on the CPU/GPU side.

My guess is, they're gonna let Intel rot a little further while doing their best to pressure for Intel to split off their fab biz (as AMD had done back then), and then invest just in the fab.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#58

Post by notherhack »

chasil wrote: post #32
nxobject wrote: post #19

Random question: where did the ARM core design come from?

Intel's first exposure was the purchase of DEC StrongARM in the 90s, although that particular product line was sold to Marvel.

Nit: Marvel makes comics. Marvell Technologies (two l's) makes chips with ARM CPUs in them, mostly for datacenter gear.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#59

Post by epolanski »

cameron_b wrote: post #53

I understand the part where Intel is trying to get external customers interested in the output of their fab by exhibiting an implementation of an ARM processor. In the past I understand that they did some custom implementation of Xeon cores for hyperscalers, but the meat and potatoes was the chip they designed. Do we take this to mean that the current leadership assess the value proposition -of Intel- to be in the /m…

> I'm hearing bears in the woods

No, why?

The world desperately needs a TSMC competitor.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#60

Post by epolanski »

coro_1 wrote: post #51
testdelacc1 wrote: post #8

Assuming they’re telling the truth, they’ve successfully built one chip from that fab. That’s good, but it doesn’t mean the fab is capable of manufacturing at scale while turning a profit. They need an external customer for the fab so they can iterate and work out the issues. It’s anyone’s guess if someone trusts intel to manufacture on their behalf instead of sticking with an established player. They’re stuck in a c…

The foundries they're putting together for future manufacturing are just hoping customers will comes. Intel needs partnerships because the brand isn't the same since the core founders and builders are long gone.

I don't get it. Intel has a very huge customer for their 18A node, one that could bring billions in orders: itself.

If they themselves don't produce their chip there, why would anybody else do?

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