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New executive order puts all grants under political control

arstechnica.com

51–60 of 218 posts

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#51
post #47

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

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Not sure how to read it. Do you believe covid-19 virus came from an US (funded) lab? I have never heard of that theory.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#52
post #23

I don’t really understand why so much of science is funded by the government instead of by private philanthropy. It seems like an obvious channel for corruption of science. Sure private donors have interest driven motives too but it would be diffuse across many areas not concentrated like a political party’s interests.

The biggest reason is because we have a strategic multinational interest in remaining a leader in science. China (and other countries) will fund science. We have to as well, or we fall behind. Its national security. We also have a strategic interest in draining intelligent individuals from other countries and nationalizing them in ours, which science funding plays a major part in doing. One of the reasons why its com…

The current system is broken but nothing about this administration is aimed at helping fix its problems.

With most actions, there's nothing being remedied, just an assertion of control. The action isn't tied to an improvement goal or a remedy with rationale.

As Tao noted, in cases where a remedy for a wrong is mentioned, the remedies being proposed by the administration do far more harm to any ostensible victims than the original asserted wrongs.

Nothing about their actions is in good faith in terms of improving academics in the US, nor do they even try in most cases to pretend to be trying to improve academics at all.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go deeper - why does anti-intellectualism emerge?

Nationalist populism sacrifices academics and intellectuals to create a divide between “the people” and the presumed said “elite,” which is then weaponized for political gain by the actual “elite” (political, economical, etc). These movements rely on emotional resonance and simplified narratives, as opposed to educated, informed discourse. My crude take on the underlying root cause is resentment, discontent, and simi…

I say we launch the nukes and tell everyone who leaned into willful ignorance "aw how sad it didn't go the way you wanted."

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#55

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

This year is definitely the beginning of the end for American scientific leadership. The damage being done is incalculable.

The best and brightest simply aren't going to want to come to the U.S. for an uncertain future where they'll be harassed at the airport every trip and then defunded or deported at any time for "political" reasons (a.k.a. racism, bigotry, religion, ignorance and anti-intellectualism).

Amazingly, we're only 200 days into this administration.

We have 3 years, 5 months and 12 days left, assuming we still have free and fair elections in 2028.

For the next several years, the administration is going to continue to dismantle our country's foundations brick by brick, enabled by Congress and SCOTUS. The attack on immigrants is in full swing, but the total takeover of science, public education, universities and mass media is actually just beginning.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#56
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Soviets made them second…

Not because they trusted their scientists to be able to do it though. They used the plans stolen form the US instead.

The Soviets had the first flying object in space, the first animal in space, the first human in space, first spacewalk, first woman, first space station. I doubt those plans were all in the US, and if they were, the US didn’t use them.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Paul Graham? Pretty sure he was anti-Trump before the last election. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s one of those “enlightened centrists.”

Maybe I've unfairly judged him. Last I remember seeing was some pearl clutching about how Trump/Musk needed to "be careful" with what DOGE cut or something. I took that assumption of good faith as an indication of being in the reality distortion field, like too many other VCs are.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#58

I don’t really understand why so much of science is funded by the government instead of by private philanthropy. It seems like an obvious channel for corruption of science. Sure private donors have interest driven motives too but it would be diffuse across many areas not concentrated like a political party’s interests.

  > I don’t really understand why so much of science is funded by the government instead of by private philanthropy.
The two are not orthodontal, it is not "instead". Why does the government fund science? To keep the nation ahead of its rivals. Why doesn't philanthropy fund science? Actually, it does. How much more philanthropy would you like? And from whom?

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#59
post #49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, because government funded science is free from having to produce immediate results in order to satisfy the whims of a specific patron such that funding is continued. I agree with you but there's irony (and a possible lesson about motives) in the current situation.

Well, hundreds of elected representatives and a handful of judges have had to entirely abdicate their responsibility and power for us to arrive at this point. It's not just one guy.

Sadly true and the real mystery for me.

The problem and paradox is that it's hundreds of elected representatives and a handful of judges entirely abdicating their responsibility to make it just one guy.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go deeper - why does anti-intellectualism emerge?

Nationalist populism sacrifices academics and intellectuals to create a divide between “the people” and the presumed said “elite,” which is then weaponized for political gain by the actual “elite” (political, economical, etc). These movements rely on emotional resonance and simplified narratives, as opposed to educated, informed discourse. My crude take on the underlying root cause is resentment, discontent, and simi…

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