Can someone explain how the same group of countries can simultaneously issue book-long regulations about how everyone needs to respect privacy to the nth degree, and run around the world trying to force others to do the same, yet also propose these kinds of things?
EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
51–60 of 230 posts
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#52And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how tech-savvy people will go out of their way to make sure they communicate with as many people as possible exclusively using End-to-End-Encrypted services exclusively. (that do not scan your messages even locally / on device before sending / after receiving them)
In the UK a massive surge in using VPNs happened in the last 2 weeks and the adoption only keeps rising.
Call me Nostradamus but if this legislation gets passed I can see how a lot of people will become familiar with the Privacy and Security aspects of the tech world (comms in particular).
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. Does its prevention even help anyway? The adult porn industry is regularly criticized for seeing people choose it over real sexual relationships. Conceivably the same could hold true for CSAM. As in, if you can't access it, you're going to go get the real thing instead. The narrative that it prevents child abuse sounds good in theory, but what does the da…
The data tells us that many child abusers are caught with CSAM as well, so it does jack shit to keep them from abusing kids, Take your CSAM apologia somewhere else.
> The data tells us that many child abusers are caught with CSAM as well
How much CSAM? A PornHub's worth of content, or a couple of pictures? The data suggests that in the adult porn world, people aren't satisfied by a single Playboy magazine. Which, too, is the logic behind CSAM laws — that the insatiable search for more content incentives production of more content. But at some point there will be more content that can be consumed, and given how often CSAM producers are caught (not even counting those who never are) we've no doubt far exceeded that threshold. And with the way AI is going...
> Take your CSAM apologia somewhere else.
Ad hominem is a logical fallacy.
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#54I assume this is just a police state overreach rather than genuine intent to stop crime. They must know that anyone actually engaging in criminal activity is going to not be caught by this because they use other forms of encrypted communication.
I'm not saying that this is NOT police state overreach, but the assumption that all (or even most) criminals practice good operational security still seems laughable to me. I think you are letting your ideological alignment (against surveillance state) push you into irrational standpoints ("more surveillance would not catch additional criminals"). I'm 100% with you on opposing legislation like this, but it is very im…
I've always thought we're actually very lucky that terrorists tend to be idiots.
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if it were true (and it might be) that these people would commit less-or-none abuse if they can continue to have access to the csam, the existence of the csam itself necessitates abuse. It seems akin to child sacrifice. Whose kid must be tormented so that other kids can go unmolested? That said, not sure that draconian, ubiquitous surveillance is the correct (or even effective) solution to the problem.
> the existence of the csam itself necessitates abuse. Just as the existence of America as we know it necessitates the pillaging and raping of native tribes. But we're not going to watch over your shoulder to make sure you don't participate in American society and send you to jail if you do. As unfortunate as past damage is, life moves on. Of course, that it incentivizes production of more CSAM is the logic behind th…
> Just as the existence of America as we know it necessitates the pillaging and raping of native tribes. But we're not going to watch over your shoulder to make sure you don't participate in American society and send you to jail if you do. As unfortunate as past damage is, life moves on.
There is a significant difference in that you can choose not to consume CSAM. Most Americans don't get to choose not to participate in American society.
> Algorithms do incentivize production of more and more adult porn even as 90% of will never been seen by anyone, for sure, but the law could still take a harder stance on those algorithms if that is the better solution.
I would argue that the better solution is to keep the CSAM laws we have—maybe make them harsher, even—and keep letting adults make consensual porn with other adults if they so desire.
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#56Thank god AI never makes mistakes… I pity whoever is going to be the first false positive guinea pig for this csam process. Functionally a guilty (as decided by algo) until proven innocent logic
2022, Google refuses to reinstate man’s account after he took medical images of son’s groin https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-cs...
> The man... took pictures of his son’s groin to send to a doctor after realizing it was inflamed. The doctor used that image to diagnose Mark’s son and prescribe antibiotics. When the photos were automatically uploaded to the cloud, Google’s system identified them as CSAM. Two days later, Mark’s Gmail and other Google accounts, including Google Fi, which provides his phone service, were disabled over “harmful content” that was “a severe violation of the company’s policies and might be illegal”... He later found out that Google had flagged another video he had on his phone and that the San Francisco police department opened an investigation into him.
> Mark was cleared of any criminal wrongdoing, but Google has said it will stand by its decision.
Less "guilty until" and more "guilty despite innocence."
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#57Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t w…
no, many of the citizens are just like any other country: some of them aren’t aware this is happening.
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#58Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t w…
Most of the people I know - and I live in eu - are not knowledgeable about these topics. Furthermore, I've never heard about this in one of the main news channels, so I guess that most people don't even know about it
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#59Every message will be scanned, except for von der Leyen's contract negotiations via SMS :D
You are laughing, but last time they had added a built-in exception for politicians and members of law enforcement. Interesting, don't you think? :D
Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum
#60The first mitigation steps that come to mind: - Keep casual conversations on mainstream crap to be reachable by the masses and give the appearance of being monitored . - Send friends to a tiny URL that redirects to a tiny ephemeral private anonymous chat instance running entirely in RAM with an IP certificate [0] once available to remove domain name ownership from the picture. When done with that chat edit redirect t…
Neat idea, a link that the first two people to open it get websockets and a chat, every subsequent connection gets a redirect. If pages are being crawled preemptively, the chat will be broken and if they're crawled afterwards there's nothing to see.