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Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

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Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#51

Post by avtar »

I would see Proxmox come up in so many homelab type conversations so I tried 8.* on a mini pc. The impression I got was that the project probably provides the most value in a clustered environment or even on a single node if someone prefers using a web UI. What didn't seem very clear was an out-of-box way for declaring VM and container configurations [1] that could then be version controlled. Common approaches seemed to involve writing scripts or reach for other tools like Ansible. Whereas something like LXD/Incus makes this easier [2] by default. Or maybe I'm missing some details?

[1] https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/default-settings-of-contai...

[2] https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/docs/main/howto/instances_...

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#52

Post by cyberpunk »

avtar wrote: post #51

I would see Proxmox come up in so many homelab type conversations so I tried 8.* on a mini pc. The impression I got was that the project probably provides the most value in a clustered environment or even on a single node if someone prefers using a web UI. What didn't seem very clear was an out-of-box way for declaring VM and container configurations [1] that could then be version controlled. Common approaches seemed…

There are various terraform providers for proxmox.

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#54

Post by nyrikki »

redundantly wrote: post #41
woleium wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can do this with ceph on commodity hardware (or even your compute nodes, if you are brave), or if you have a bit of cash, something like a netapp to do NFS/iSCSI/NVME-oF Use any of these with the built in HA manager in proxmox

As far as I understand it, Ceph allows you to create distributed storage by using the hardware across your hosts. Can it be used to format a single shared block device that is accessed by multiple hosts like VMFS does? My understanding is this isn't possible.

Ceph RBD can technically support multi-writer access through exclusive locking, but it won't be the same as multi-writer.

You can set up a radosgw outside of the proxmox and use objects.

But ceph is fundamentally a distributed object store, shared LUNs with block level multi-writer is fundamentally a tightly coupled solution.

If you have a legacy need that has OCFS or a quorum drive, the underlying tools proxmox is an abstraction can sometimes be used as these types of systems tend to be pets.

But if you were just using multi-writer because it was there, there are alternatives that are typically more robust under the shared nothing model like Ceph uses.

But it is all tradeoffs and horses for courses.

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#55

Post by whalesalad »

cyberpunk wrote: post #52
avtar wrote: post #51

I would see Proxmox come up in so many homelab type conversations so I tried 8.* on a mini pc. The impression I got was that the project probably provides the most value in a clustered environment or even on a single node if someone prefers using a web UI. What didn't seem very clear was an out-of-box way for declaring VM and container configurations [1] that could then be version controlled. Common approaches seemed…

There are various terraform providers for proxmox.

Yeah, this is the way. You end up treating Proxmox like it is AWS and asserting your desired state against it.

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#56

Post by unixhero »

nirav72 wrote: post #26
throw0101c wrote: post #22

I've heard good things about XCP-ng [1] as well: anyone use both that can lay out the pros/cons of each? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCP-ng

I can't speak for pros and cons with XCP-Ng. I've been meaning to try out XCP-ng. But feel like there just isn't a large enough community support around it yet. At least not like Proxmox, which has seen a surge in usage and popularity after the Broadcom fiasco.

Maybe a surge of newcomers, but the community was strong before and irrespective of the fiasco.

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#57

Post by tlamponi »

zozbot234 wrote: post #16
piperswe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trixie is under a heavy freeze right now; just about all that's changing between now and the 9th are critical bug fixes. Yeah it's not ideal for Proxmox to release an OS based on Trixie this early, but nothing's really going to change in the next few days on the Debian side except for final release ISOs being uploaded

They might drop packages between now and the stable release. An official Debian release won't generally drop packages unless they've become totally unusable to begin with.

We manage anything, including package builds, ourselves if the need should arise; we also monitor Debian and release critical bugs closely, we see no realistic potential for any Proxmox relevant package to disappear, at least nothing higer compared to that happening after the 9th.

FWIW, we got staff members that are also directly involved with Debian which makes things a bit easier.

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#58

Post by tlamponi »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #9
znpy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian repositories gets frozen months in advance before a release, and pretty much only security patches are imported after that. Maybe some package gets rebuilt, or stuff like that. No breaking changes. I wouldn't expect much changes, if any a all, between today (Aug 5th) and the expected release date (Aug 9th).

Yeah, but what is the rush? I mean 1) what if something critical changes, and 2) I could easily see some setting somewhere being at "-rc" which causes a bug later. Frankly, not waiting half a week is bright orange flag to me.

The linked forum post has an FAQ entry, this was a carefully weighted decision with many factors playing a role, including having more staff available to manage any potential release fall-out on our side. And we're in general pretty much self-sufficient for any need that should arise, always have been that way and provide enterprise support offerings that back our official support guarantees if your org would have the need for that.

Finally, we provide bug and security updates for the previous stable release for over a year, so no user has any rush to upgrade now, they can safely choose any time between now and until August 2026.

Re: Proxmox Virtual Environment 9.0 with Debian 13 released

#59

Post by tlamponi »

yla92 wrote: post #15

> The Proxmox VE mobile interface has been thoroughly reworked, using the new Proxmox widget toolkit powered by the Rust-based Yew framework. First time hearing about Yew (yew.rs). First time hearing about it. Is it like writing frontend code in Rust and compiled to WASM ? Is anyone using it (other than Proxmox folks, of course).

> Is it like writing frontend code in Rust and compiled to WASM ?

Exactly, it's actually quite lightweight and stable plus mostly finished, so don't let the slower upstream releases discourage you from ever trying it more extensively.

We build a widget library with our products as main target around Yew and native web technologies, you can check out:

https://github.com/proxmox/proxmox-yew-widget-toolkit

And the example repo:

https://github.com/proxmox/proxmox-yew-widget-toolkit-exampl...

For code and a little bit more info. We definitively need to clean a few documentation and resource things up, but we tried to make it so that it can be reused by others without tying them to our API types or the like.

FWIW, the in-development Proxmox Datacenter Manager also uses our Rust / Yew based UI, it's basically our first 100% rust project (well, minus the Linux / Debian foundation naturally, but it's getting there ;-)

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