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Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

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Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#51

Post by gagik_co »

Arathorn wrote: post #18

This article is fundamentally false - we addressed it on https://element.io/blog/addressing-fear-uncertainty-and-doub... dang: is HN really the place for competitive marketing crap like this?

Right now it's prime time for a bunch of "European" tech (which still very much depend on a ton of non-EU infrastructure and code) to start shilling for their "EU alternatives". It's like the new local buzzword after AI.

I started self-hosting and adopting Matrix for my app recently and most of these raised concerns seem manipulative at best. Thanks for all the work with the project!

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#52

Post by wkat4242 »

shakna wrote: post #34
wkat4242 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically yes but Switzerland does subscribe to most EU legislation in order to join the internal market. They're a lot more "EU" than the UK is now.

... You're suggesting Switzerland is subject to EU surveillance laws? Instead of the ones they put in planning in January?

They generally agree to pretty much everything yes because they're afraid of losing internal market access. It just takes a while longer because they have to approve each new thing individually.

I do use Switzerland as an exit for my vpn though yes.

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#53

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

jeroenhd wrote: post #44
contravariant wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being subject to the UK and US surveillance laws seems as good an argument as any. Though I'm not sure if the GDPR allows for data to be stationed in Switzerland. It's not EU but it is party to a lot of treaties so it's not out of the question. Ironically it might become a safer place to station data if the EU manages to push through more surveillance decrees.

The US and Germany used a Swiss company to sabotage encryption for years: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51467536 Being inside of the EU also won't ensure your privacy: https://argos.vpro.nl/artikelen/former-philips-top-cryptogra... And let's not forget that the Swiss are just as willing to implement privacy infringing laws as any other country these days: https://tuta.com/blog/switzerland-surveillance-plan Do…

> The US and Germany used a Swiss company to sabotage encryption for years

CryptoAG and the CIA's decision to release the history document of that operation is such an interesting story. In particular, it had this effect of getting people to distrust Swiss companies, for better or for worse. It makes it sound plausible, if however unlikely, that a company such as Proton is actually a front for US cyber warfare. (I don't think it is but it might be; it seems like that may have been the point.)

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#54

Post by anonzzzies »

EGreg wrote: post #30
Catbert59 wrote: post #7

The only safe communication is decentralized communication, capable of multiplexing multiple techniques (IP, BLE, LoRa, etc.) under the hood of cryptographically safe routing and messaging algorithms that work over unreliable links. Maybe even with small-range offline radio mailboxes so you can deliver and gather messages from/to highly suppressed people which then can be send back into the "online" network automatic…

Well, I’ve been in the decentralization space (and mocked for it by some on HN) for a decade at least. When Moxie wrote a thoughtful critique of decentralization, I wrote an article addressing his criticisms and spoke about why decentralization matters: https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram... There are many great decentralized alternatives. I know the founders for most of them, and interviewed…

I might be completely wrong/off the mark here, but could it be related to that everything decentralised here is about blockchain (or even DLTs) which is just really weird for almost any idea... Who comes up with weirdness to stuff every square peg in a round hole? Sorry if you are not that person, but when I open the Autonomi page, I see 'not block chain', 'add your eth wallet', 'dlt based'... Why?

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#55

Post by EGreg »

anonzzzies wrote: post #54
EGreg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I’ve been in the decentralization space (and mocked for it by some on HN) for a decade at least. When Moxie wrote a thoughtful critique of decentralization, I wrote an article addressing his criticisms and spoke about why decentralization matters: https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram... There are many great decentralized alternatives. I know the founders for most of them, and interviewed…

I might be completely wrong/off the mark here, but could it be related to that everything decentralised here is about blockchain (or even DLTs) which is just really weird for almost any idea... Who comes up with weirdness to stuff every square peg in a round hole? Sorry if you are not that person, but when I open the Autonomi page, I see 'not block chain', 'add your eth wallet', 'dlt based'... Why?

You asked why everything decentralized is about blockchain. Then you proceed to say Autonomi says “NOT blockchain” and still that triggers you? I think the problem may be on HN for being triggered by certain words.

Here is why. True anonymity and freedom requires not trusting a centralized party. So you’re going to need a way to achieve some sort of consensus and durability. Also if you are anonymous, how do you pay for storage? You can’t have accounts! Answer: you need utility tokens, a form of cryptocurrency that needs to solve the double-spend problem.

So any project that is serious about solutions arrives at these elements every time. Perhaps the only exception is early BitTorrent where everyone sharing had to be seeding too. But that only works for popular movies and such!

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#56

Post by anonzzzies »

EGreg wrote: post #55
anonzzzies wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be completely wrong/off the mark here, but could it be related to that everything decentralised here is about blockchain (or even DLTs) which is just really weird for almost any idea... Who comes up with weirdness to stuff every square peg in a round hole? Sorry if you are not that person, but when I open the Autonomi page, I see 'not block chain', 'add your eth wallet', 'dlt based'... Why?

You asked why everything decentralized is about blockchain. Then you proceed to say Autonomi says “NOT blockchain” and still that triggers you? I think the problem may be on HN for being triggered by certain words. Here is why. True anonymity and freedom requires not trusting a centralized party. So you’re going to need a way to achieve some sort of consensus and durability. Also if you are anonymous, how do you pay…

I think it depends on what you want to achieve; this solves another decentralised thing than I would want. I want users in a group to share data which is not possible to be ever retrievable by someone outside the group. So the data is encrypted between the members of the group, on THEIR devices only. And when the group collapses and/or users remove the data from their device, it cannot be retrieved in any way. Unlike any distributed decentralised network where, if we get good enough in 'n' years, we can just get that info from the chain and decrypt it. Even if the creators of the data disbanded and have no wish for any of this. I see for payments blockchain makes some sense, although it's hardly anonymous anymore, but for any other goal, I don't want anything stored where I don't have control. Ideally that is, of course life doesn't work like that.

I think there is no need to buy storage (you already have it); there needs to be software to share it in a way that is p2p and not via ANY other machines that are not owned by the members of the group (for instance, your family).

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