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Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

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Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#51

Post by austin-cheney »

RhysU wrote: post #40
austin-cheney wrote: post #2

Why? Until congress is willing to pass a balanced budget this is just lightning your own money on fire.

If one thinks that more government is the solution to all problems, a painfully common modern view, then the most utility available from $1 one owns is handing that $1 directly to the government. In practice, no one donates like this with their own money. They just vote for the government to take incremental money from others via ever more taxation.

It doesn't matter where output comes from whether its government or the private sector. People expect some manner of output at a certain acceptable price and quality. But, this completely misses the point.

The bottom line is government income must increase and government spending must decrease. That income can be from taxes, competing with commercial enterprise, donations, or whatever. It really doesn't matter.

The only part of this that has been evidently clear is that massively firing people from the government without a plan has proven extremely expensive. If you really want smaller government you need a plan to reduce the work force over time in a way that does not diminish the quality and quantity of output.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#52

Post by austin-cheney »

palmfacehn wrote: post #27
austin-cheney wrote: post #2

Why? Until congress is willing to pass a balanced budget this is just lightning your own money on fire.

It isn't uncommon to come across a polemic opining for increased taxation. Frequently the rhetoric will fit a common pattern, "I'm a [insert high status or high income descriptor] and here's my spicy contrarian take: We should all be paying so much more!" While these people might still support the ideals of coercive taxation as a distinct issue, they might also pursue the voluntary route. If they truly value the gove…

This all sounds like bullshit posturing from politicians that got us into this mess.

The bottom line is that government income must increase and government spending must decrease. Income can come from taxation, competing with private enterprise, donations, or other channels. Decreased spending ultimately means doing less.

The only part of this that has become abundantly clear is that massively firing a bunch of people from government without a transition plan is incredibly expensive. If you want smaller government then expect government to do substantially less and the work force will decrease over time naturally. The small government political bullshit can seem to swallow that bitter pill.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#53

Post by M95D »

ath3nd wrote: post #28
HPsquared wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if any countries have laws holding politicians to stick to their campaign promises.

Don't know about laws, especially since politicians can change those, but there are tools. Common items used in woodworking and agriculture can be very useful: carving knives, axes, pitchforks and branding irons. Generally a big group of people holding their tools of trade in front of the palace/parliament/penthouse has been a pretty effective approach over the millennia.

> [...] has been a pretty effective approach over the millennia.

But now, the other side has surveilance, tear gas, water cannons, rubber bullets, drones, and very profitable incarceration facilities.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#54

Post by RhysU »

austin-cheney wrote: post #51
RhysU wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one thinks that more government is the solution to all problems, a painfully common modern view, then the most utility available from $1 one owns is handing that $1 directly to the government. In practice, no one donates like this with their own money. They just vote for the government to take incremental money from others via ever more taxation.

It doesn't matter where output comes from whether its government or the private sector. People expect some manner of output at a certain acceptable price and quality. But, this completely misses the point. The bottom line is government income must increase and government spending must decrease. That income can be from taxes, competing with commercial enterprise, donations, or whatever. It really doesn't matter. The o…

My point is that for someone who thinks government is the ultimate solution it's completely rational to have ever more government. More debt to finance more government simply follows. Can't have too much of a great thing. Etc.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#55

Post by nabla9 »

RickJWagner wrote: post #50
primitivesuave wrote: post #8

There is a US Treasury API endpoint [1] to see how much money actually comes in. 1. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/gift-contributions-...

That’s awesome. There are some very wealthy people that make a great show of demanding to pay higher taxes. Here’s a mechanism for them to demonstrate sincerity.

"If you want more taxes and are rich, just donate to treasury argument" again.

We want systemic changes, not patrons.

Taxes are for equity and fairness. Taxes are compulsory, donations are voluntary.

Taxes are payment for being for being rich.

Donations are taxes for being a good person.

Great rant: David Mitchell on Tax Avoidance from The Last Leg https://youtu.be/xc8epam4NyY?t=150

Then Mitchell being more serious: You can't blame the rich for paying as little tax as possible. I do the same https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/31/david-...

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#56

Post by morsecodist »

RickJWagner wrote: post #50
primitivesuave wrote: post #8

There is a US Treasury API endpoint [1] to see how much money actually comes in. 1. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/gift-contributions-...

That’s awesome. There are some very wealthy people that make a great show of demanding to pay higher taxes. Here’s a mechanism for them to demonstrate sincerity.

This doesn't make any sense. When people say this they mean they want more social spending and they are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The budget is what it is, the administration has made it clear that keeping the deficit low has nothing to do with the level of social spending they are willing to do. Sending money won't really do anything.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#57

Post by ath3nd »

M95D wrote: post #53
ath3nd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about laws, especially since politicians can change those, but there are tools. Common items used in woodworking and agriculture can be very useful: carving knives, axes, pitchforks and branding irons. Generally a big group of people holding their tools of trade in front of the palace/parliament/penthouse has been a pretty effective approach over the millennia.

> [...] has been a pretty effective approach over the millennia. But now, the other side has surveilance, tear gas, water cannons, rubber bullets, drones, and very profitable incarceration facilities.

The other side is not even 0.0001% of the population. Cops, military, firemen, they are all working class, like us. The veil drops when you realize we are ALL working class: the police, military, software engineers, firemen, nurses, doctors, lawyers, miners, farmers, teachers.

The other side has nothing. We operate the farms, the weapons, the hospitals, the IT infrastructure, the surveillance, the army, the transportation, the bullets, the drones and the incarceration facilities. The other side contributes nothing, does nothing, and if they continue on their current path, history has shown again and again that they will be reduced to nothing.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#58

Post by roxolotl »

echelon wrote: post #12
primitivesuave wrote: post #8

There is a US Treasury API endpoint [1] to see how much money actually comes in. 1. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/gift-contributions-...

We need an API to block the government from spending more money. It seems like voting for "fiscal conservatives" results in bigger spending.

Yes that has been the case since at least Reagan. The deficits go up under republicans more than democrats. The fiscal conservatism is a marketing ploy.

Paper from 2004 on the topic: https://shapiro.macmillan.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files...

Paper from 2022 on the topic:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01603477.2022.20...

Wikipage with just economic indicators by party:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_p...

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#59

Post by bluemanshoe2 »

Using the API, the total contributions people have made here for all time are $67,323,122.88. Meanwhile, the Debt-to-the-penny api (https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/debt-to-the-penny/d...) tells us that (as of 2025-07-25) the public debt is $29,361,169,407,599.91 whereas the day before it was $29,332,905,580,399.32, meaning the one day increase was $28,263,827,200.59.

So, the publics total contributions amount to 0.24% of the increase from Thursday to Friday last week. One part in 400 of the one day change, or about ~3 minutes worth.

Re: Donate to the Treasury to help pay down the $36.7T public debt

#60

Post by mathiaspoint »

nabla9 wrote: post #55
RickJWagner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s awesome. There are some very wealthy people that make a great show of demanding to pay higher taxes. Here’s a mechanism for them to demonstrate sincerity.

"If you want more taxes and are rich, just donate to treasury argument" again. We want systemic changes, not patrons. Taxes are for equity and fairness. Taxes are compulsory, donations are voluntary. Taxes are payment for being for being rich. Donations are taxes for being a good person. Great rant: David Mitchell on Tax Avoidance from The Last Leg https://youtu.be/xc8epam4NyY?t=150 Then Mitchell being more serious:…

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