Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#51

Post by defrost » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:22 AM UTC

noah_buddy wrote: post #46

defrost wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell of trope there. I live in a rural community filled with farmers and FiFo workers (fly in | fly out mine and rig workers) with a median age of ~ 60 years. My father has worked hard manual labour his entire life, he only recently stopped splitting wood and climbing ladders. He was born in 1935. He's not unusual here, many 60 and 70 year olds, 80 year olds even, are still active on the land here. Rephrased, it's ju…

You see those who have survived the job, not those who don’t. Have you ever asked your father about people he’s worked with who are now dead? Probably a whole lot of em.

> You see those who have survived the job, not those who don’t.

Quite an assumption on your part.

Despite having serious mathematical qualifications and several million SLOC of code behind me, I've also worked cattle stations, mine sites, and been part of SES and St. John's Ambulance crews (first responders to accidents).

That said, to address your question,

he's not worked with either Aaron Swartz nor Terry Davis.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#52

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:22 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #43

missedthecue wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually the interest payments crowd out most other government spending, or require significant across the board tax increases to maintain current levels of spend. The US is currently at $1T+ a year in tax revenues that instantly go right out the door toward paying bond interest. It will likely be $2T within 10 years, even fewer if rates don't come down in that time. It's compounding and therefore exponential. Situ…

So lets raise taxes now and pay it off. Who should we tax? Should we squeeze blood from stones and try to get the poor to pay more taxes, or should we tax the wealthy? Who am I kidding. The current administration showed us--what was it? last week?--that they prefer cutting taxes for the wealthy and increasing the deficit. Republicans ALWAYS increase the deficit. Democrats usually do, but not always. It looks like we'…

Tax cuts for the wealthy were not in the BBB.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#53

Post by BLKNSLVR » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:23 AM UTC

pelagicAustral wrote: post #5

Oh, this is so incredibly coordinated to what I was doing just a minute ago, which is checking one of my Pension funds and realizing it recovered from a massive hit back in March. I was thinking about how futile the whole thing is... I just know this money will never be mine, and I will work until I die (if I'm lucky enough). Oh well, I guess better get some sleep, back to the office tomorrow...

For the last 10-odd years I've been putting money away / aside, making regular small contributions to investments for retirement, such that I think I'm somewhat ahead of my age cohort.

And yet, the more I look at it, the more I get the feeling that I might still have to get lucky to be able to retire at retirement age.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#54

Post by SchemaLoad » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:23 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #33

SchemaLoad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math still has to check out. Yes I agree getting rid of the ultra wealthy improves the situation a lot and should be done. But at some point you still have too many retired people for the working population to support. At that point it's going to have to be considered that a 60 year old is still perfectly capable of working low physical demand jobs rather than spending 10-30 years on cruise ships.

Has technology improved our productivity in recently decades? How come a people with ever improving productivity can no longer support retired people?

Partially went to rich peoples yachts and space programs, partially impacted by an aging population/declining birth rates, and partially went to the fact people consume more stuff and live longer.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#55

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:24 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #43

missedthecue wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually the interest payments crowd out most other government spending, or require significant across the board tax increases to maintain current levels of spend. The US is currently at $1T+ a year in tax revenues that instantly go right out the door toward paying bond interest. It will likely be $2T within 10 years, even fewer if rates don't come down in that time. It's compounding and therefore exponential. Situ…

So lets raise taxes now and pay it off. Who should we tax? Should we squeeze blood from stones and try to get the poor to pay more taxes, or should we tax the wealthy? Who am I kidding. The current administration showed us--what was it? last week?--that they prefer cutting taxes for the wealthy and increasing the deficit. Republicans ALWAYS increase the deficit. Democrats usually do, but not always. It looks like we'…

It will probably have to look something like western Europe with massive across the board tax increases. I make $60k a year in the USA and my tax rates are about 12%, with no VAT. They'd probably need to look more like France, where a $60k income is hit with a 42% effective tax (adjusted for progressive rates) before 20% VAT is paid at the store.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#56

Post by defrost » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:24 AM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #47

defrost wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell of trope there. I live in a rural community filled with farmers and FiFo workers (fly in | fly out mine and rig workers) with a median age of ~ 60 years. My father has worked hard manual labour his entire life, he only recently stopped splitting wood and climbing ladders. He was born in 1935. He's not unusual here, many 60 and 70 year olds, 80 year olds even, are still active on the land here. Rephrased, it's ju…

Pretty significant selection bias in that observation.

Non American PoV's often seem that way.

The outside view is that the US has minimal Occ Health & Safety enforcement in labour and was late to the game in any case.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#57

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:27 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #52

Buttons840 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So lets raise taxes now and pay it off. Who should we tax? Should we squeeze blood from stones and try to get the poor to pay more taxes, or should we tax the wealthy? Who am I kidding. The current administration showed us--what was it? last week?--that they prefer cutting taxes for the wealthy and increasing the deficit. Republicans ALWAYS increase the deficit. Democrats usually do, but not always. It looks like we'…

Tax cuts for the wealthy were not in the BBB.

If the baseline is whatever you say it is, what's the point of discussing it with you?

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#58

Post by Buttons840 » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:29 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #52

Buttons840 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So lets raise taxes now and pay it off. Who should we tax? Should we squeeze blood from stones and try to get the poor to pay more taxes, or should we tax the wealthy? Who am I kidding. The current administration showed us--what was it? last week?--that they prefer cutting taxes for the wealthy and increasing the deficit. Republicans ALWAYS increase the deficit. Democrats usually do, but not always. It looks like we'…

Tax cuts for the wealthy were not in the BBB.

Are you saying that extending that Trump tax cuts is not a tax cut, because it's only extending and maintaining the status quo?

Or are you saying the Trump tax cuts never benefited the wealthy at all?

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#59

Post by RickJWagner » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:29 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #43

missedthecue wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually the interest payments crowd out most other government spending, or require significant across the board tax increases to maintain current levels of spend. The US is currently at $1T+ a year in tax revenues that instantly go right out the door toward paying bond interest. It will likely be $2T within 10 years, even fewer if rates don't come down in that time. It's compounding and therefore exponential. Situ…

So lets raise taxes now and pay it off. Who should we tax? Should we squeeze blood from stones and try to get the poor to pay more taxes, or should we tax the wealthy? Who am I kidding. The current administration showed us--what was it? last week?--that they prefer cutting taxes for the wealthy and increasing the deficit. Republicans ALWAYS increase the deficit. Democrats usually do, but not always. It looks like we'…

You can’t tax the rich enough to pay off the debt. They already pay the overwhelming majority of taxes.

One company alone— Berkshire Hathaway— paid almost $27 Billion in taxes for 2024. That’s about 5% of all corporate taxes paid.

To really make money, you have to tax a bunch of smaller fish, not a handful of bigger fish. You need big numbers.

That’s politically unpalatable, especially for Republicans. ( Though Democrats seem to have no appetite for it either. )

In the past, Republicans would cut taxes ( popular ) while not spending as much ( unpopular ). Democrats would not cut taxes ( unpopular ) while spending more ( popular ).

Sadly, today both parties are acting like undisciplined parents. Everybody wants to give out the treats ( spend big ) while nobody wants to earn the paycheck ( raise the taxes ). It’s a bipartisan formula for disaster.

Re: Why does raising the retirement age hurt young people?

#60

Post by RickJWagner » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:32 AM UTC

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #35

nradov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The retirement age has already been pushed back about as far as it can be, barring major advancements in medicine. Maybe some of us will still be fully capable of doing software work at age 67 but those who have spent their lives doing manual labor have usually accumulated some significant disabilities by that age. They need a break.

Interesting that the current President is 79 years old (and will be 82 by the end of his term) and he took over from someone who was also 82 at the end of their term. Given that, software work at 67 should be well within cognitive limits. (I'm actually not sure if I'm being sarcastic)

If we put our senior devs on it, we can finally beat Medicare!