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Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

reuters.com

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Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#51

Post by brainwad »

miltava wrote: post #46
brainwad wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card isn't more expensive than its main competitor, cash, though. It's just the costs of credit card acceptance are transparently added to each transaction, while the costs of cash are distributed over the whole day's cash transactions and so more opaque. Merchants have a psychological (and in some countries, legal) barrier to charging more for cash than other payment methods, even though it's the least effici…

It could give cashback if it cost 3% of the transaction. But it’s it’s actually much cheaper. For credit cards you have to pay for the brand, the issuer and the acquirer. And each gets a nice cut.

Reducing merchant fees seems like a mistake if you are in competition with both cash (which has high intrinsic merchant costs) and credit cards (which has low intrinsic costs, but which are padded so they're closer to the costs of cash, with consumer cashback coming out of this padding). I'm certainly not going to _choose_ to receive less cashback, as a consumer.

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#52

Post by omega___ »

dandellion wrote: post #39
omega___ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has the fantastic BLIK system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik Used country-wide, it's popular enough that global stores allow using it, like AliExpress or Steam.

Is it only available in Polish złoty for Polish citizens? Or could I, from a different EU country, open an account and use it to pay for games on Steam? My guess would be no, but it's worth asking.

It's supported by polish banks for PLN accounts, but I don't think there's a requirement to be a citizen to open an account. I know Revolut also allows using it, if you create a PLN account in it.

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#53

Post by closewith »

brainwad wrote: post #48
closewith wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Credit cards give me cashback, worldwide acceptance and peace of mind. That's because you (and everyone else in Switzerland, even those paying cash) is eating a 2-3% merchant fee markup. In the civilised world like the EU, where credit card interchange fees are capped of 0.3%, those cashback benefits (which is, again, your money you've just paid) don't exist. > worldwide acceptance For now, at a huge economy-wide c…

Switzerland has interchange fees of 0.4% for consumer credit cards (by contactless, only slightly higher by chip+pin): https://www.visaeurope.ch/content/dam/VCOM/regional/ve/unite... , https://www.mastercard.com/content/dam/public/mastercardcom/... . And yet banks offer 0.33% cashback cards: https://certo-card.ch/one . And let's not forget that cash acceptance costs an order of magnitude more than this anyway; if any…

> Switzerland has interchange fees of 0.4% for consumer credit cards

Only since Wednesday of this week due to COMCO action, so no-one knows if cashback will persist, but it will be a lot less than .33%.

> And let's not forget that cash acceptance costs an order of magnitude more than this anyway;

In the EU, it's .5% for cash vs .3% for cards, but the situation falls back into favour for cash once fraud is accounted for.

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#54

Post by bat_sy »

em500 wrote: post #42
ojosilva wrote: post #3

This is hands down one of the best instant payment platforms at the moment. Only India's UPI can match it in features, and China and Thailand in adoption. Most Western countries have had a (somewhat timid) taste of instant payments, but most don't know what it means to just drop credit and debit cards and cash altogether for a system that is not just universally adopted (from apps to flea markets to online payments a…

> This is hands down one of the best instant payment platforms at the moment. Only India's UPI can match it in features, and China and Thailand in adoption. I'm not familiar with Pix or UPI, so out of curiosity, how are they better than Alipay/WeChat Pay (which I am familiar with)?

I can answer for UPI. Unlike AliPay/WeeChat, the central agency (NCPI) only maintains the API. Businesses are free to develop apps on top. In India, there are 50s of apps enabling UPI transactions. You are free to download whatever app you prefer unlike AliPay/WeeChat duopoly.

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#55

Post by jt2190 »

voxleone wrote: post #29
ojosilva wrote: post #3

This is hands down one of the best instant payment platforms at the moment. Only India's UPI can match it in features, and China and Thailand in adoption. Most Western countries have had a (somewhat timid) taste of instant payments, but most don't know what it means to just drop credit and debit cards and cash altogether for a system that is not just universally adopted (from apps to flea markets to online payments a…

It may be good, but what does the Brazilian law say[0]? In 2021, Brazil enacted Law No. 14.063, which governs the digitalization of public services. Its Article 16 is clear: “Information and communication systems developed exclusively by the public administration shall be governed by open-source licenses, allowing their unrestricted use, copying, modification, and distribution by all public agencies and entities.” In…

Having an entity that’s sorta kinda government (I assume that the Brazilian Federal Bank is somewhat independent) develop and run Pix brings an interesting set of problems with it, including how it should be regulated and by whom. Open sourcing the platform’s software is only one form of audit/refulation. So maybe the source is secure and maybe another entity could run it but could another entity participate in the Pix network or would they have to establish their own separate one?

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#56

Post by brainwad »

closewith wrote: post #53
brainwad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland has interchange fees of 0.4% for consumer credit cards (by contactless, only slightly higher by chip+pin): https://www.visaeurope.ch/content/dam/VCOM/regional/ve/unite... , https://www.mastercard.com/content/dam/public/mastercardcom/... . And yet banks offer 0.33% cashback cards: https://certo-card.ch/one . And let's not forget that cash acceptance costs an order of magnitude more than this anyway; if any…

> Switzerland has interchange fees of 0.4% for consumer credit cards Only since Wednesday of this week due to COMCO action, so no-one knows if cashback will persist, but it will be a lot less than .33%. > And let's not forget that cash acceptance costs an order of magnitude more than this anyway; In the EU, it's .5% for cash vs .3% for cards, but the situation falls back into favour for cash once fraud is accounted f…

> Only since Wednesday of this week due to COMCO action

That Visa fee table is dated July 2023?

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#57

Post by closewith »

brainwad wrote: post #56
closewith wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switzerland has interchange fees of 0.4% for consumer credit cards Only since Wednesday of this week due to COMCO action, so no-one knows if cashback will persist, but it will be a lot less than .33%. > And let's not forget that cash acceptance costs an order of magnitude more than this anyway; In the EU, it's .5% for cash vs .3% for cards, but the situation falls back into favour for cash once fraud is accounted f…

> Only since Wednesday of this week due to COMCO action That Visa fee table is dated July 2023?

Right, but prior to this week, the merchant account providers just raised scheme fees to compensate.

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#58

Post by dathinab »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #5
Argonaut998 wrote: post #4

Last week Trump targeted Pix and Brazil for discriminating against Mastercard and Visa[0]. Also last week there was the Steam debacle involving the same two companies which brought attention to the power that this duopoly holds all across the world. In Brazil many people, if not the majority use interest free instalments to pay for anything above groceries - “parcelas”, all of which, until now, were done through Mast…

Europe and the UK have instant SEPA credits and debits, no? That's 41 countries within the single instant payment system. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/PYMNTS-Rea...

yes, but at the moment the user facing interfaces are not greate (in most countries, they are pretty good in some countries)

- sending money (P2P, P2B, B2B) often requires manually entering a IBAN in your banking app/website (_except in some countries_, and some systems on top of it can also reduce the friction) which is okay for many P2P use cases but not good for physical shop checkout P2B use case or ad hoc bill sharing use case in P2P (also compared to some other solutions this often comes with less consumer protections)

- doesn't interface (well) with the card payment/payment terminal ecosystem (but technically can and you do find it in some edge cases)

- fast (in seconds) payment cost extra and price is bank/country dependent (through in some countries it's free or consistently "cheap" e.g. a fixed 15ct(€) independent of amount and recipient)

but this is likely too change, some countries have already put up standards for more convenient P2P (and P2B??) payment methods and they seem to be in the process of being adapted EU wide (but not necessary UK and other non EU SEPA members)

in addition there are standardized interfaces for 3rd parties companies to link up with SEPA and/or you bank account which do technically allow companies to innovate on improvements. Practically this often runs into issues, 1) from a consumer POV in many (not all) EU countries the state of card payment is just fine and convenient features like easy bill sharing many people either don't need or don't know what they miss out on. 2) many issues are on the (physical) shop side, but you need to provide things users can use and having multiple systems in parallel is often not very practical, 3) at the same time without shops allowing new systems customer don't have any reason to adapt such new systems

anyway all of this likely will improve quite a bit relatively soon

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#59

Post by ozgrakkurt »

jt2190 wrote: post #50
ojosilva wrote: post #3

This is hands down one of the best instant payment platforms at the moment. Only India's UPI can match it in features, and China and Thailand in adoption. Most Western countries have had a (somewhat timid) taste of instant payments, but most don't know what it means to just drop credit and debit cards and cash altogether for a system that is not just universally adopted (from apps to flea markets to online payments a…

> … CCs should be an exception, not the norm they are now, with a bunch of embedded costs we all pay for, one way or another. To spell it out, the merchant pays fees to the payment processor and carries risk (chargebacks, etc) and these costs are included (“embedded”) in the purchase price of whatever you’re buying. Moving to instant pay moves these risks to the purchaser, which is probably not ideal for the merchant…

It is just better in my experience.

You just scan a QR code and pay.

Not much point of using a credit card unless you want to spend money that you don’t have. Or to think you are making “points” by spending more money

Re: Brazil central bank to launch Pix installment feature in September

#60

Post by mrisoli »

rcruzeiro wrote: post #17
ojosilva wrote: post #3

This is hands down one of the best instant payment platforms at the moment. Only India's UPI can match it in features, and China and Thailand in adoption. Most Western countries have had a (somewhat timid) taste of instant payments, but most don't know what it means to just drop credit and debit cards and cash altogether for a system that is not just universally adopted (from apps to flea markets to online payments a…

Systems like these are very common in Europe. Here in Norway, you can pay for almost anything, anywhere with Vipps. It works very similarly to Brazilian Pix. Another system I have used in the past is the Portuguese MBWay which although similar to Pix and Vipps, doesn’t seem to be as widely adopted as the former.

Interestingly, I've spotted a few places in Portugal already accepting Pix as a form of payment, catering to a large demographic of Brazilian immigrants and tourists.
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