Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#51

Post by fridder » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:23 PM UTC

bitpush wrote: post #27

perfmode wrote: post #22

> We believe in training our models using diverse and high-quality data. This includes data that we’ve licensed from publishers, curated from publicly available or open- sourced datasets, and publicly available information crawled by our web-crawler, Applebot. > We do not use our users’ private personal data or user interactions when training our foundation models. Additionally, we take steps to apply filters to remo…

When Apple inevitably partners with OpenAI or Anthropic, which by their definition isnt doing "ethical crawling", I wonder how I should be reading that.

Same way as the other parts of their supply chain I suppose.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#52

Post by Uehreka » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:25 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #40

bitpush wrote: post #38

The more I think about Apple, the more I realize that Apple is so far behind. While other companies are pushing the envelope (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google ..) Apple's ambitions seem much much smaller. And this is after they made very big claims with Apple Intelligence last year, when they had everyone fooled. This is like watching a train-wreck in slow motion.

Only if you think they _must_ compete with large models on the internet.

I wouldn’t go as far as GP, but yes, absolutely, they must compete with large models on the internet. Customers are now used to being able to ask a computer a question and get something better than “I just ran a web search for what you said, here are the uncurated, unsummarized results”.

Yes, this is in fact what people want. Apple is the biggest company in the world (don’t quibble this y’all, you know what I mean) and should be able to deliver this experience. And sure, if they could do it on device that would be aces, but that’s not an item on the menu, and customers seem fine with web-based things like ChatGPT for now. To act like Apple is doing anything other than fumbling right now is cope.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#53

Post by badwolf » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:26 PM UTC

JimDabell wrote: post #39

DSingularity wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To use their APIs at a discount, so what?

Apple aren’t paying OpenAI anything: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-12/apple-to-...

That's quite a discount! ;)

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#54

Post by visarga » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:26 PM UTC

bitpush wrote: post #38

The more I think about Apple, the more I realize that Apple is so far behind. While other companies are pushing the envelope (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google ..) Apple's ambitions seem much much smaller. And this is after they made very big claims with Apple Intelligence last year, when they had everyone fooled. This is like watching a train-wreck in slow motion.

The paper was a very nice read, and they did many creative things. It's a pity this model won't be directly accessible, only integrated in some apps.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#55

Post by wmf » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

bitpush wrote: post #27

perfmode wrote: post #22

> We believe in training our models using diverse and high-quality data. This includes data that we’ve licensed from publishers, curated from publicly available or open- sourced datasets, and publicly available information crawled by our web-crawler, Applebot. > We do not use our users’ private personal data or user interactions when training our foundation models. Additionally, we take steps to apply filters to remo…

When Apple inevitably partners with OpenAI or Anthropic, which by their definition isnt doing "ethical crawling", I wonder how I should be reading that.

In theory Apple could provide their training data to be used by OpenAI/Anthropic.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#56

Post by specialist » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #40

bitpush wrote: post #38

The more I think about Apple, the more I realize that Apple is so far behind. While other companies are pushing the envelope (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google ..) Apple's ambitions seem much much smaller. And this is after they made very big claims with Apple Intelligence last year, when they had everyone fooled. This is like watching a train-wreck in slow motion.

Only if you think they _must_ compete with large models on the internet.

I'm fine with Apple chilling on the sidelines for a bit.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#57

Post by bitpush » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:31 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #55

bitpush wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Apple inevitably partners with OpenAI or Anthropic, which by their definition isnt doing "ethical crawling", I wonder how I should be reading that.

In theory Apple could provide their training data to be used by OpenAI/Anthropic.

It isn't "apple proprietary" data to give it to OpenAI.

Also the bigger problem is, you can't train a good model with smaller data. The model would be subpar.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#58

Post by wmf » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:32 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #46

Here is my question… This is the first time that millions of people will actually download and run a model on their own devices. The question is… will Apple be constantly tweaking these models, or only during OS upgrades? I for one really like local software. Call me old-fashioned, but I enjoy when a company doesn’t switch up software anytime on the server, or phone the results home all the time in order to extract m…

The model is gigabytes so I doubt they will push updates frequently.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#59

Post by ApolloVonZ » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:33 PM UTC

Despite all the “Apple is evil” or “Apple is behind” (because they don’t do evil). Well, what they made with the Foundation Model is great. The fact that they build a system within the Swift language that allows you to specify structured data models (structs) to be used like any other model in a modern programming language, and you actually get back generated data in that format is great. Unlike a lot of other AIs where you might get back a well formatted JSON after a carefully crafted request, but still you never can’t be sure and need to implement a bunch of safeguards. Obviously it’s still the beginning and other tools might do something similar. But as an iOS developer that makes the usage of AI so much simpler. Especially with the bridge to external AIs that still allows you to map back to the type safe structured Swift models. I try not to be a hater, every progress, even slow or underwhelming at first might lead to improvements everywhere else.

Re: Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025

#60

Post by halJordan » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 10:34 PM UTC

bitpush wrote: post #38

The more I think about Apple, the more I realize that Apple is so far behind. While other companies are pushing the envelope (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google ..) Apple's ambitions seem much much smaller. And this is after they made very big claims with Apple Intelligence last year, when they had everyone fooled. This is like watching a train-wreck in slow motion.

Apple's ambitions are actually bigger than openai or anthropopic. Only Google's ambition (surprise surprise) is similar. Apple fundamentally wants the llm to be a tool. It doesn't want the llm to be the product.