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FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

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Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#51

Post by LeifCarrotson »

whycome wrote: post #33
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The candy flavors were marketed to children.

ban the marketing to children. or limit the ads to in between all the ads for the different betting platforms.

Regulators have no control over who looks at a given billboard or television ad.

It's a new phenomenon that they might (might) be able to tell TikTok or Youtube to estimate the age of individual viewers and limit which topics can appear in advertisements to different age groups.

The existence of the candy flavors and any public marketing of those flavors (even on the label in the store aisle) is implicitly marketing to children.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#52

Post by Freak_NL »

whycome wrote: post #28
Freak_NL wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean why vapes aren't allowed to be sold in exciting flavours in a lot of countries? Because what happened there was that 'strawberry kiwi', 'banana ice', and 'miami mint', and whatever fruity flavour in a colourful package you can come up with, turned vaping from something adults did to quit smoking tobacco into the biggest hype amongst teenagers since fidget spinners. Only they get addicted to nicotine as a…

Vapes aren't just for adults to quit smoking tobacco. They're a nicotine-delivery system. It's a way to use a legal stimulant. The flavors would make it potentially more enjoyable. I don't think vape kids are ever switching to tobacco - that doesn't fit the model that they want at all: its an electronic device that delivers a stimulant. Why is alcohol something that's okay to market to kids? (The new supergirl is a d…

> Why is alcohol something that's okay to market to kids?

It's not in many places. Where is it OK? There is a reason abstinence from alcohol is getting normalised for under 18s.

> I don't think vape kids are ever switching to tobacco […]

Demographic research polling suggests otherwise. Besides, it is gradually becoming more apparent that vaping is very much not a healthy thing to do¹.

1: Just one example of reporting on this issue: https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/sep/08/vapi...

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#53

Post by consp »

xnx wrote: post #44

In some objective analysis I wouldn't be surprised if drinking a bottle of Coke daily is worse than vaping once daily, even for teens.

Sugar is bad, but not that addictive and has no withdraw symptoms.

Nicotine is highly addictive and bad for you health. You pretty much have a customer for life ... which is the point. So next to having something which is bad for you, inhaling glycerol, combined with a substance which is addictive and bad for your health, you also are at a financial loss for life.

And it's targeted at teens ...

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#54

Post by oasisbob »

heckintime wrote: post #23
bgwalter wrote: post #19

It is already known that E-Cigarettes cause lung damage: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-preventi... On the rare occasions of exposure by a user exhaling in public next to me I found it worse than passively inhaling cigarette smoke.

Seems like Zyn is better for you and others.

... except the increasing numbers of young children who ingest them.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#55

Post by jajuuka »

jjice wrote: post #26

Let me preface by saying that I'm not a fan of the evolution of e-cigs since they ended up being more of an entry point than a transition out of nicotine. Probably half of my friends started by vaping and moved to cigarettes. That said, tons of other vapes are allowed on the market, so why should Juul specifically be banned?

Juul was particularly problematic for marketing designs they made. However it's not an unforgivable sin. Just needed a corrective action. Which threatening to shut them down seems to have done.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#56

Post by Freak_NL »

funkyfourier wrote: post #39
Freak_NL wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands the scientific Trimbos Institute has been reporting this based on their regular demographic research polls, but health care professionals are drawing this conclusion too. Near the end of high school vaping is something the kids do. To be really cool, you gotta smoke — and as this group of unfortunate kids is already addicted to nicotine…

As a former smoker and vaper for 12 years this is unfathomable to me. Vaping is just better in every way. It takes some getting used to when coming straight from cigarettes, but after that the flavor of tobacco is just pure stench when compared to vanilla, strawberries etc.

That's the problem with a not yet fully developed prefrontal cortex; cool now is way more important than healthy later.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#57

Post by dreamcompiler »

nashashmi wrote: post #18
malfist wrote: post #14

I'm sure loosening restrictions is all part of the Make America Healthy Again plan, right?

Restrictions placed by govt is not a part of MAHA, and is anti MAGA.

Except of course for government restrictions on women's reproductive healthcare. Those seem to be fine.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#58

Post by EA-3167 »

jajuuka wrote: post #48
malfist wrote: post #14

I'm sure loosening restrictions is all part of the Make America Healthy Again plan, right?

Considering vaping is an effective means to get people off cigarettes, I would guess so. MAHA is garbage but this is a good change.

The narrative of vapes as "tools to quit tobacco" really doesn't hold up. I'm not saying that you can't make it work, some people do, but it's not the primary use and it doesn't account for the explosion of vaping among young populations who weren't using nicotine before vaping. These companies aren't investing tens of billions into these products because they plan to help smokers quit and then stop using vapes.

By the same token the degree to which vapes help people quit is up in the air, some studies show strong effects in favor of quitting, others show strong effects that it's inferior to other quitting aids. (i.e. studies like https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7867832/)

"These are a way for people to reduce harm" is primarily an industry narrative at this point, divorced from reality.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#59

Post by JohnBooty »

dmix wrote: post #49
evanjrowley wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various U.S. institutions of authority took the position that flavors were not for adults, but instead, a strategy to attract minors. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/e-cigarettes/why-youth-vape.html https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/ctp-newsroom/misleading... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6663555/ https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2018/05/... https://www.drugs.com/news/study-finds-powerful…

Alcohol comes in fruit flavours too, no respectable adult would drink a cocktail cooler, so it's safer to protect the kids and ban them.

Because it's hard to get any laws passed, much less a law that tackles two major things (tobacco and alcohol) at once

In most US states the sale of alcohol is already much more restricted than the sale of tobacco.

You can walk into any 7-11, convenience store, or gas station and buy tobacco. In most states, this is not true for alcohol.

Also, tobacco vape use is much more addictive and somewhat more concealable than alcohol. People can generally tell or at least suspect you've been drinking; people generally cannot tell if you just vaped 10 seconds ago in the bathroom.

It's far from ideal and you and I would certainly not design a country from scratch this way, but legislation (at least, ideally) deals with things as they are and not with an imagined tabula rasa state of affairs.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#60

Post by jajuuka »

jasonthorsness wrote: post #35

Targeting kids and teens with addictive substances (actually targeting anyone with addictive substances) is normalized evil. Also, addictive experiences (shorts...). Normally I lean libertarian but there has to be some allowance/mechanism for defending people from predatory corporations. Vaping was absolutely a huge problem in schools; legally "intentional" or not it was somehow getting picked up by kids.

Teen vaping has been decreasing. And the solution to that problem is ban vaping. When teen drinking was a huge problem we didn't ban alcohol.
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