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IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

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Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#51

Post by vachina »

alex_duf wrote: post #35
gorgoiler wrote: post #13

My first reaction here was horror: Home Assistant and Zigbee integrate perfectly with IKEA’s devices, and the devices are beautifully designed! Please don’t take these away! Only the other day did I marvel at how a low battery indicator flashes on one of my remotes when I use it. A design flourish that I really appreciated. But I read that Thread supports IPv6 via mesh networking. It did always feel a bit awkward hav…

> It did always feel a bit awkward having Zigbee networking and IP networking competing over the same site Funny, to me that's a feature. It makes the threat of a hacked device that exfiltrate data from within your network much less likely. I avoid any wifi device because of that.

Yes, not to mention WiFi is so much more power hungry.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#52

Post by Asmod4n »

meepmorp wrote: post #36
Asmod4n wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t talk to other devices unless you got the private key of them.

> You can’t talk to other devices unless you got the private key of them can you explain what you mean by this?

Buy a device from the manufacturer “Eve” try to add it to homeassistant after upgrading its firmware to use matter/thread: no can do, they don’t give you their key to talk to their devices.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#53

Post by wkat4242 »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #21

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

Yeah and matter needs internet access in many cases. It was supposed to be the saviour of open home automation. But in practice it leaves too many strings attached that the manufacturer can take advantage of.

And despite it not being open enough for open source enthusiasts, it's also got a bad name with manufacturers. I work for one and I asked why we wouldn't implement matter and thread and it was laughed off because apparently marketing will never give up their own app as a data collection and cross selling vehicle. Of course those are exactly the reasons I don't want this.

I didn't even know about the certification that only big players can do and the locked firmware requirements. It's ridiculous. Why were thread and matter hailed as the open revolution when they're exactly the opposite?

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#54

Post by jkestner »

api wrote: post #15
mft_ wrote: post #14

Huh... anyone know what this will mean for people with legacy Ikea lightbulbs and hub? e.g. if I add future Ikea lightbulbs or other equipment, will this mean managing them via a different system? (By the by, I've been very happy with Ikea bulbs so far; while other people complain of LED bulbs with a short lifespan, [touches wood] I've not had a single failure with Ikea smart bulbs, with ~7 years and counting on one…

Isn’t this the history of home automation? The money is in getting people locked into a “system,” but the systems are things that tend to rapidly become dated. So people will invest in a system and either get disillusioned due to the downside of lock in or the system goes obsolete and the newer stuff is not compatible because it’s a whole new system. Rinse, repeat. There have been many attempts at industry standards…

“[Matter in its current version] doesn’t really help resolve the key issue of the smart home, namely that most companies view smart homes as a way to sell more individual devices and generate recurring revenue.”

https://staceyoniot.com/matter-only-solves-about-one-of-the-...

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#55

Post by amluto »

nick__m wrote: post #8

I don't understand the problem that thread solves that zigbee doesn't! The article says that thread doesn't require a hub but it require a border gateway that is almost indistinguishable from a hub. And as far as my home assistant setup is concerned, it doesn't require a hub, only a zigbee radio. The only thing that seems to advantage thread is manufacturers support, but I don't see what's stopped them to regroup aro…

As I understand it, Thread can transparently extend its mesh over regular IPv6 (Ethernet, Wi-Fi, etc), whereas extending a Zigbee (or Z-Wave) mesh beyond useful mesh range is a mess. I have a Z-Wave network that uses two controllers, and it sucks. It’s utterly obnoxious to maintain, the whole concept of multiple controllers is barely supported by zwave-js-ui, it is far to dumb to recover quickly on its own if it transiently loses connectivity to a node, and roaming between controllers is a complete non-starter.

I haven’t tried Thread yet, but I’m delighted by the concept of having a couple of easy-to-maintain base stations (routers or whatever they’re called) connected to the local network and having devices automatically roam between them.

I am not delighted by the fact that an Apple Home Thread network, a Google Home thread network, and a Home Assistant native thread network appear to be different things that are not entirely compatible with each other.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#57

Post by throwaway984393 »

"A software development kit (SDK) is provided royalty-free,[13][14] though the ability to commission a finished product into a Matter network in the field mandates certification and membership fees,[15][16] entailing both one-time, recurring, and per-product costs.[17] This is enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and so-called device attestation certificates.[15]"

So it's a closed ecosystem that makes money for a cabal of corporations

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#58

Post by fnwbr »

Asmod4n wrote: post #52
meepmorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t talk to other devices unless you got the private key of them can you explain what you mean by this?

Buy a device from the manufacturer “Eve” try to add it to homeassistant after upgrading its firmware to use matter/thread: no can do, they don’t give you their key to talk to their devices.

I did exactly this. Got an Eve smart plug meter and it works flawlessly in HomeAssistant. I'm also pretty sure I had upgraded to the latest firmware via Apple Home app before doing so.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#59

Post by kedikedi »

Spooky23 wrote: post #19
mft_ wrote: post #14

Huh... anyone know what this will mean for people with legacy Ikea lightbulbs and hub? e.g. if I add future Ikea lightbulbs or other equipment, will this mean managing them via a different system? (By the by, I've been very happy with Ikea bulbs so far; while other people complain of LED bulbs with a short lifespan, [touches wood] I've not had a single failure with Ikea smart bulbs, with ~7 years and counting on one…

The newer DIRIGERA hub has both radios, and recently added full thread support in a firmware update, so you should be good if you have it. Otherwise, add that or an upcoming hub or migrate the old bulbs. I love my Ikea smart home gear, it works really well. Odd that a cheap furniture store that sells meatballs seems to have a more coherent smart device strategy than major tech companies!

I think that applies to many other electronics they sell too. I find them pretty well engineered overall.

My guess is that it’s because they sell any particular piece of hardware in millions and it’s in their best interest to design it properly so they don’t have to deal with the returns.

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