Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

joincolossus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 89 posts

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#51

Post by robertritz »

jebarker wrote: post #36

I too would like to hear more from people with similar approaches to work, career and technology to KK. However, it seems like there’s a large amount of survivorship bias at play when people talk about just following their interests and it leading to financial security and work freedom.

Meh I took a serious left turn after college and my first few jobs. Much happier now.

Work on Capitol Hill for less than a year then tech outsourcing then consulting. Realized it was boring, useless, and mind numbing and moved across the world. Now have multiple businesses, more than 30 employees across those business, and I get to have fun. It's stressful sometimes but I think we've kicked the stress finally (at 37). Now it's just fun and we get to see what we can pull off when we want to.

Most people simply quit or aren't willing to do the uncomfortable things. It's uncomfortable to be unbothered. But I certainly didn't follow my interests. I used my interests to get better at what was in front of us. Gotta pay the bills and give people what they want, I just put my own spin on it.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#52

Post by robertritz »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #41
yeeetz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many successful American tech founders and entrepreneurs have strong religious or spiritual beliefs — I believe it's part of the unique competitive advantage and edge in this industry

I wonder what the correlation / causation is on that versus having a supportive family and community. That is, if you took someone who's an atheist, would making them religious (left as an exercise to the reader) make them measurably more successful? Or is it that people who already have supportive families tend to come from religious families, and tend to inherit their parents' religion?

As someone who isn't particularly religious, but grew up in a religious household, and as someone married to a very religious person (different religions), I believe it's all about outlook.

Religion tends to give you several quite positive beliefs about the world that aren't entirely logical. Things like karma, the golden rule, belief in a plan, etc.

Generally speaking I also believe that religious people are more willing to trust and forgive. These are all pretty positive things.

And finally I believe religious people have a higher sense of duty to others, but the better term is probably responsibilism.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#54

Post by WJW »

coderatlarge wrote: post #50
pragmatic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah that’s bleak. You don’t have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other people the bear is chasing. The bar is so low in corporate America you could trip on it. Just try to be halfway competent, do something useful at work, read a book or two about your industry. You’re already way ahead. Don’t fall for the hacker news bs. Lots of millionaires out here that never had a successful startup.

> Lots of millionaires out here that never had a successful startup. what do you mean by this?

Not GP, but exactly what he says: don't fall for the HN narrative that the only way to be successful in life is to found a startup and become a billionaire at 25. Carefully and diligently working your way up the career ladder and consistently spending less than you earn has a vastly higher expected value than the startup life, but since it can be described in a few sentences and is not very exciting you will not find many influencers pushing it.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#55

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

zombiwoof wrote: post #20
egypturnash wrote: post #10

Is this a story about Kevin Kelly or is this an autobiography? It purports to be the former but it's largely about the author's work history. It sort of gestures vaguely at being an interview with Kevin but there's only about four paragraphs in the entire article that contain quotes from him in response to things the author asked, and most of these are about his collection of knick-knacks. I kept on waiting for a ser…

K I thought I was crazy but you nailed it . What did I just read

Perhaps the author decided to demonstrate the point instead of writing about it.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#56

Post by endymion-light »

cushychicken wrote: post #27

There's a lot to love about this. I particularly like feeling like you need permission to show optimism and enthusiasm about your work. I also particularly like this bit: “Greatness is overrated,” he said, and I perked up. “It’s a form of extremism, and it comes with extreme vices that I have no interest in. Steve Jobs was a jerk. Bob Dylan is a jerk.” ...but mostly out of a sense of confirmation bias. It's nice to k…

That's a great attitude to have I think.

It's definitely something that I was guilty of really early into the development idea, sleepness nights, 80 hour weeks, this idea that greatness must be achieved.

But actually, chilling out, taking time to think about where you actually want to be past accolades and achievements is really important.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#57

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

kaiwenwang wrote: post #33
chr15m wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the greatest at what you do" is by definition a zero sum framing that will lead 99.999% of participants to view their lives as a failure. It is literally madness to make this your goal. The alternative is to choose to be very good at what you do, which has a good chance of success if you try hard at something you care about.

I feel like very good isn't enough as employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, and if you're sort of in the middle then the so-so companies don't want you either because they think you'll leave. Something about the increased social stratification of our times, which also has to do with increased transportation and communication. Might also depend on your locale. Plumber in Germany might be b…

>employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates,

This is just flatly false. Employers want candidates at all ability levels given a competitive price.

You can be pretty bad at your job and still have a steady stream of work if you're cheap, for example. The Hacker News crowd loves to poop on these guys because we are almost by definition a quasi-professional platform, but we are far from the median take on this.

>Might also depend on your locale. Plumber in Germany might be better than SWE in Texas.

If you truly believe this, and think the difference is substantial, make a 5 year plan and move to Germany. Talk is cheap.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#58

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

iddan wrote: post #48
Quarrel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many successful American tech founders and entrepreneurs don't have strong religious or spiritual beliefs. Both are true. I think finding self-motivation in life is important, particularly for entrepreneurs, but there are many sources. I've never thought the SV / San Fran scene was particularly religious. I'd have guessed religion was under-represented there compared to the rest of the US.

Spirituality doesn’t have to be religion and most certainly not an Abrahamic religion.

There's often more overlap with plain old Prosperity Gospel Protestantism than many people realise - especially in the sense that the definition of success is likely to be narrow, material, and individual.

There's usually a lot more "I'm entitled to love and money and I will wish them into existence for me personally" than "I think everyone should have good affordable public healthcare, so I will work hard towards making that happen."

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#59

Post by whiplash451 »

Very inspiring read. A non-trivial application of it if you work in a fairly big org and the product roadmap is non-existent/uninspiring: in such context, you will often find exciting projects/revenue streams in the cracks of the system/market, not by waiting for the product/strategy team to come up with these exciting venues (pro tip: they won't)

Find some interest in your current product and go hard after it.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#60

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

Gemini summary:

The article "Flounder Mode" on JoinColossus.com, while ostensibly about Kevin Kelly and a concept called "flounder mode," is primarily an autobiographical reflection by the author on their own career and life philosophy.

The author describes their journey through various roles and experiences, from working on Capitol Hill to tech outsourcing and consulting, and ultimately to building multiple businesses. They touch upon themes of finding purpose, opting out of traditional success metrics (like reaching the top of a corporate hierarchy), and the importance of pursuing one's interests even if it feels "uncomfortable" or lacking immediate structure.

Despite the title, direct quotes and extended insights from Kevin Kelly on "flounder mode" are minimal. The article's core message seems to be that success can be found by embracing a less linear, more explorative approach to one's career, much like a "floundering" fish might move around until it finds its way. The author suggests that this "flounder mode" involves an openness to trying different things, even if they don't immediately seem to lead to a clear path, and that this can ultimately lead to more fulfilling and interesting work.

Post reply on HN