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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#51

Post by resolutefunctor »

leptons wrote: post #40
resolutefunctor wrote: post #15

There is a lot I hate about building apps and releasing them on the App Store, and I'd be happy for there to be alternatives. But that said, I don't understand how its a monopoly. There is no requirement to build an app for iOS devices. There are other devices and means for software delivery out there. What makes their control of their own ecosystem monopolistic? As someone who has paid the apple tax for digital sale…

Apple also blocks any web browser on their mobile devices except their web browser . Chrome, Firefox, and any other browser on IOS is using Safari under the hood. Now why would Apple do this? Because they have hobbled Safari so that it does not have modern web APIs which would allow web developers to create web-apps that use APIs that are only allowed on App-store apps on IOS devices. This forces developers to either…

Yeah I hadn't thought about the browser being intentionally bad to push actual apps. That's been the reason for about half of the apps that I've made. The next is also somewhat anti-competitive, and its how bad the web services notifications are compared to the app-based notifications.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#53

Post by whstl »

slashtab wrote: post #35

What is the logic behind everyone wanting Apple to be champion of democracy in authoritarian countries?

In this case they don't seem to be wanting it AT ALL:

"We don’t question Apple’s right to act on behalf of authoritarians for the sake of profit, but Apple’s monopoly over iOS app distribution means it can enforce this perverse policy on all app developers, forcing them to also be complicit"

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#54

Post by bitpush »

BowBun wrote: post #47
Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage, giving the impression that Apple phones were high technology, and interacting with peasant androids is what made group chats fragment and pictures and videos look like trash. Few things are more enraging than people being left out of chats with friends and family because they didn't bend over for Apple. Even…

> I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory Don't you think this is _maybe_ an overstatement? I was annoyed about this for years but reading your take is borderline satirical.

From the lawsuit

> For example, when a user purchases an iPhone, the user is steered to use Apple’s default email product, Apple Mail. It is only through a complex labyrinth of settings that a user can change her default email application away from the Apple “Mail” application towards an alternative like Gmail (Google) or Proton Mail.

> At least for mail a user can in theory modify the default setting. On the calendar front the situation is even worse. A user’s default calendar is Apple Calendar, and the default cannot be modified

That's pretty evil & predatory to me. The fact that it is by design (someone decided it needed to this awful) is why Apple is being evil here. And this is just one example.

There's more

> For example, Apple banned apps from its App Store that supported Google Voice because Apple sought to advantage its own services over Google’s

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#55

Post by _benton »

This is probably a controversial opinion but I actually use my iPhone because it's locked down with a curated app marketplace and secure payment system. I don't want alternative payment methods or app stores. So I find it distasteful that other companies are seeking to control Apple's product design through the legal system. They're essentially trying to make it impossible to purchase a product I want, which is more monopolistic than the current status quo. iPhones do not have any sort of monopoly on phones.

If you want that, you can purchase any number of Android devices.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#56

Post by crazygringo »

cess11 wrote: post #22
andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

Why would any of these factors outweigh their dominant position in the market and the value of market competition?

Why wouldn't they?

Apple isn't dominant in the market worldwide (Android is), and they are competing against Android. Apple often implements things Android did first. That's how competition works.

Apple's global marketshare is 30% or just under.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#57

Post by charcircuit »

lillecarl wrote: post #43
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #24

Apple and Proton are two companies that I personally like, but the claim that the internet descended into surveillance capitalism because of the walled garden approach of the App Store is an argument in bad faith. Even if Apple allowed other app stores or payment methods, that would not have stopped Facebook and Google from capitalizing on user data to sell ads and manipulate public opinion. They would give their pro…

When your platform becomes a dominant market it becomes a market and markets are regulated to prevent market abuse, this is what's happening now. And while Facebook and Google would still be hoarding data, there are a huge amount of games and apps I'd rather pay 5 for that are now ad-fueled invasive crapps and "pay to remove ads" costs 15 instead of 5. When a significant percentage of the population uses your product…

Companies should not be regulated just because they are successful. Apple built a really successful app platform. It's theirs to maintain or burn to the ground.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#58

Post by ethbr1 »

Zambyte wrote: post #50
andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

> shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? If they wanted that right they shouldn't have sold the computer.

Sssh. Coming soon: "Leases, by Apple"

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#59

Post by TulliusCicero »

_benton wrote: post #55

This is probably a controversial opinion but I actually use my iPhone because it's locked down with a curated app marketplace and secure payment system. I don't want alternative payment methods or app stores. So I find it distasteful that other companies are seeking to control Apple's product design through the legal system. They're essentially trying to make it impossible to purchase a product I want, which is more…

You're free to keep your own device locked down yourself and to only use Apple's own app store if you want.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#60

Post by buran77 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage, giving the impression that Apple phones were high technology, and interacting with peasant androids is what made group chats fragment and pictures and videos look like trash. Few things are more enraging than people being left out of chats with friends and family because they didn't bend over for Apple. Even…

> I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage

Is that really the worst thing you've seen big-tech do? That's very fortunate.

What about Blackberry Messenger which was the mobile instant-messaging golden standard for years and BB exclusive for as long as it mattered in the market? Was that too long ago to remember?

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