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Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

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Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#51

Post by bag_boy »

os2warpman wrote: post #23

This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams. The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed phys…

I am happy to share my mom's story, as tragic as it is.

My stepfather passed away just before Covid. After he passed away, my mom was isolated and started spending time on Match.com.

Eventually she found her match - a total scamming operation.

She proceeded to liquidate my deceased step father's retirement savings and also took out high interest loans to send her match money.

She wired the scammer well over $100k. The high interest loans totally ruined her life.

They were using a US bank. She was using Wells Fargo.

She is/was:

1. Desperate for attention 2. Prone to deception 3. Tech illiterate - some of the photos the scammer sent her were so obviously photoshopped

Happy to share more if it's helpful. It's been one of the most difficult things to deal with throughout my life, but I hope that our story can be helpful to someone else.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#52

Post by renewiltord »

os2warpman wrote: post #23

This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams. The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed phys…

I know two people in my network who this happened to. One is the elderly father of a friend who has dementia who was told that his friend in Asia had a business opportunity (they actually collected this money in person in San Jose). The other is a young woman whose mother is a member of the CCP (as many in China are) and who was told that she had to do this or her mother would face consequences there.

I found both situations unbelievable but I can see how. Two situations which turned out legitimate were:

* I was in a bad accident and there was a settlement which was intended to go to the insurer but went to me instead. The subrogation claim eventually made it to me and I was informed via phone. I told them to send the docs etc. and contacted the insurer to ensure this was their guys. It was and I paid (perhaps more than I should have but not all that I received)

* About half the time I send a big wire on Chase, they call me to confirm details and this and that. I always say "I shouldn't really be doing this, right? Can you tell me how I can call you?" and they tell me to go on the site and find the number etc. etc.

So it seems there are many cases where the fake seeming is legit. These two were drowned in a large number of other scam phone calls, admittedly, and I must confess that hearing an Indian accent with a Western name now sets off my alarm bells.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#53

Post by commandlinefan »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

I've said it before here, I'll say it again: it is high time that our governments follow the money and the scammers. Sanction the source countries of these scams to hell and beyond until they clean up their act and pray in front of us on their knees for forgiveness. And yes, I'd like particularly Narendra Modi to kneel - it's hard to wish anything else after watching more than two Scammer Payback videos. Obviously In…

> Sanction the source countries

According to the article, this is originating in China - we're sanctioning them pretty hard as it is, and they don't seem to care that much.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#54

Post by rightbyte »

fragmede wrote: post #50
rightbyte wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are looking at it from the wrong direction. The scammers are calling everyone. Of those you have met, who would be at risk of falling for such scams? I know about maybe two. And the combination of being both susceptible and not chronic broke is quite rare. Both those I know about who I guess fall for this stuff are broke.

To be fair, if Troy Hunt, who's made his career in cybersecurity can get scammed, thinking you're too smart to ever fall for a scam is just pure hubris.

If am referring to pig butchering scams, not phising attacks or scams in general.

I would e.g. instantly enter my username and password at work into any prompt that requests and looks as usual since Microsoft request my system password randomly all the time theough webpages. It is not my fault...

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#55

Post by burkaman »

os2warpman wrote: post #23

This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams. The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed phys…

It is also incomprehensible to most victims, before and even after it happens to them. Many people never report the crime because they're so embarrassed and cannot explain their own behavior. If you talk to them about it they usually won't defend their decisions, they'll say something like "I know it doesn't make sense, I don't understand why I did it and I see now that the scam is blindingly obvious, I don't know what happened".

Desperation and loneliness are often a part of it, and these scams happen over a period of months, so at the critical moment it doesn't feel (emphasis on "feel") like you're talking to a stranger at all. These criminal organizations have done this thousands and thousands of times, they know how to emotionally manipulate someone away from thinking objectively about the situation. They just have to catch someone at a vulnerable moment and get them talking for a day or two, and already they aren't a stranger anymore, they're "a guy I've been talking to", and they just build up the relationship for weeks or months before they even bring up money or investing.

This Economist podcast is pretty good if you want to understand more, even if you don't have a subscription the three free episodes are great: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc.

This is also a good blog post about how even someone extremely knowledgeable about technology and fraud can be easily scammed if you just catch them at the right time: https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/05/cyber-dunning-kruger/. It can happen to you too, you are not immune just because these victims seem like morons to you. They seem like morons to themselves too, but it still happened.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#56

Post by tim333 »

os2warpman wrote: post #23

This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams. The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed phys…

I chatted a bit to one of them trying to get money from me and it was quite subtle. Blah blah I make money in crypto why don't you try I'll show you what to do and then instead of going to say mexc which is a real exchange it would be to mexx or some such which is a clone they've made. It would actually semi function and show profits encouraging the punter to stake more not realizing it was a fake exchange.

I didn't send money to the mexx.com site but I did send some to a site called ftx.com which pulled a more subtle scam. Got that refunded eventually.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#57

Post by throwaway_434 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

I've said it before here, I'll say it again: it is high time that our governments follow the money and the scammers. Sanction the source countries of these scams to hell and beyond until they clean up their act and pray in front of us on their knees for forgiveness. And yes, I'd like particularly Narendra Modi to kneel - it's hard to wish anything else after watching more than two Scammer Payback videos. Obviously In…

> And yes, I'd like particularly Narendra Modi to kneel

Umm you are targeting the wrong person here. Majority of the scam call centers come from West Bengal, particularly Kolkata. Which is headed by Chief Minister Mamta Banerjee.

India has a federal structure, with cooperation between Center and States. Similar to USA. Modi just can't invade Kolkata using Indian Armed Forces and dismantle the operations without facing significant legal challenges in the Supreme Court of India.

West Bengal is a islamo-commie state. Nearly impossible to flip the state electorally for BJP to win (Narendra Modi heads BJP). The state is a stronghold of Mamta Banerjee who heads the TMC party. She came to power after nearly 4 decades of Communist rule.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#58

Post by PaulHoule »

rightbyte wrote: post #38
os2warpman wrote: post #23

This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams. The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed phys…

I think you are looking at it from the wrong direction. The scammers are calling everyone. Of those you have met, who would be at risk of falling for such scams? I know about maybe two. And the combination of being both susceptible and not chronic broke is quite rare. Both those I know about who I guess fall for this stuff are broke.

By "everyone" I'd say that if any social or comms platform allows DMs you will get messages that say something like like "Hey!" from those scammers. If you reply you will get questions meant to qualify you like "How old are you?" pretty quick and if you pass they'll work you over for months

Young folks on the other hand get hit with

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextortion

which often ends by suicide in 15-20 minutes.

Re: Foreign Scammers Use U.S. Banks to Fleece Americans

#60

Post by downrightmike »

mouse_ wrote: post #22
unboxingelf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KYC only hurts law abiding citizens. Criminals just use stolen identities (from breaches of KYC data).

Gotta love anarcho tyranny

I had to look it up: The term "anarcho-tyranny" was coined by writer Sam Francis to describe a situation where a state oppresses citizens' lives but is unable or unwilling to enforce laws that protect them. Francis believed that anarcho-tyranny is built into the managerial system and cannot be solved by voting out incumbents or fighting corruption. He argued that the political left has dominated politics because of a progressive managerial class that has increased state power and bureaucratization, while eroding the power of other authorities. Francis believed that the only way to restore sanity was to devolve power back to law-abiding citizens. Francis also used the term to describe an armed dictatorship without rule of law. Some commentators have used the term to describe situations where governments focus on confiscating weapons instead of stopping looters. Thomas Fleming has described anarcho-tyranny as "law without order" and suggested that people should follow the advice of a boxing referee and protect themselves at all times.

But in reality it was the right that was setting us up for failure all this time, going back to at least Reagan as California's governor reducing funding to schools. Then Nixon doubled down.

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