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Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

bbc.com

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Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#51

Post by kingofheroes »

iamthepieman wrote: post #15

My brother passed away from AML (acute myeloid leukemia) almost two years ago. His quality of life was dismal on treatment, he was constantly vomiting, mouth sores, unable to sleep but very tired, couldn't see his two young children and locked away in a hospital ward. His wife had to make a huge effort to see him consistently because she couldn't bring the kids and had to find babysitters. He made the decision to sto…

Your situation is different from the one in the article. In your brother's case, it was end stage and so forgoing treatment to improve QoL makes total sense. In the article the sister actually had a high chance of survival (so opposite of end stage) but still chose not to undergo treatment.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#53

Post by bilekas »

em-bee wrote: post #49
bilekas wrote: post #18

> The children absorbed outlandish ideas, including that the Royal Family were shape-shifting lizards, says Gabriel. "As a young child, you trust your parents. So you see that as a truth," he says. At what point does someone step in and call this child abuse, at the very least these parents are not capable of raising their children in a safe manner. > Kate Shemirani styles herself as "the Natural Nurse" on social med…

At what point does someone step in? at the same time when you tell the children that santa is not real. /s this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from. incidentally, this is the reason why homeschooling is outlawed in germany. to prevent parents indoctrinating their children without the children getting a chance to learn about alternatives.

> this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from.

This is a really nice idea. If only teachers were paid enough to be able to give their care. In any part of the world.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#54

Post by em-bee »

bilekas wrote: post #53
em-bee wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does someone step in? at the same time when you tell the children that santa is not real. /s this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from. incidentally, this is the reason why homeschooling is outlawed in germany. to prevent parents indoctrinating their children without the children getting a chance to learn about alternatives.

> this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from. This is a really nice idea. If only teachers were paid enough to be able to give their care. In any part of the world.

sadly very true. the point that matters here is that the fact that these people believed in these theories is an indication of the failure of our education system.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#55

Post by an_guy »

al2o3cr wrote: post #5
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #4

[flagged]

A child in my daughter’s daycare suffered febrile seizures and experienced an anoxic brain injury because the vaccine wasn’t safe. Also, Old Man Withers turned me into a newt!

Why is it that whenever someone shares anecdotal evidence of their friend or family member being affected by a vaccine, the first response is mocking them for being against the medicine?

Suppose a commonly used drug caused severe reaction among a fringe group of people, you don't mock those people and call them anti-vax/unlucky. The pharma responsible for drug should look into the case and come up with guidelines for usage.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#56

Post by madaxe_again »

em-bee wrote: post #49
bilekas wrote: post #18

> The children absorbed outlandish ideas, including that the Royal Family were shape-shifting lizards, says Gabriel. "As a young child, you trust your parents. So you see that as a truth," he says. At what point does someone step in and call this child abuse, at the very least these parents are not capable of raising their children in a safe manner. > Kate Shemirani styles herself as "the Natural Nurse" on social med…

At what point does someone step in? at the same time when you tell the children that santa is not real. /s this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from. incidentally, this is the reason why homeschooling is outlawed in germany. to prevent parents indoctrinating their children without the children getting a chance to learn about alternatives.

That is absolutely not what school is for. It would be really nice if it were, but it is not.

School is for creating the next generation of obedient workers - the entire modern model of schooling emerged from the Industrial Revolution in order to produce better factory workers.

Claims are handed to you at school as truth. Questioning them will get you detention.

Ironically, I am homeschooling my daughter because I want her to be a critical thinker who demands hard evidence for anything presented to her - not someone who doesn’t know which century the Second World War happened in, and that it was maybe the Chinese or the Australians who started it, not sure, but they were 100% bad and we were 100% good. Sounds ridiculous, I know, but these are the educational outcomes where we live, where most kids finish school at 13. I could barely pick my jaw up from the floor when witnessing this debate.

I had a handful of teachers who encouraged independent thought - the majority however couldn’t explain or justify what they taught except with a meter ruler or a dunce’s cap.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#57

Post by em-bee »

madaxe_again wrote: post #56
em-bee wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does someone step in? at the same time when you tell the children that santa is not real. /s this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from. incidentally, this is the reason why homeschooling is outlawed in germany. to prevent parents indoctrinating their children without the children getting a chance to learn about alternatives.

That is absolutely not what school is for. It would be really nice if it were, but it is not. School is for creating the next generation of obedient workers - the entire modern model of schooling emerged from the Industrial Revolution in order to produce better factory workers. Claims are handed to you at school as truth. Questioning them will get you detention. Ironically, I am homeschooling my daughter because I wa…

ok, fair point. it depends on the country and the school. i meant to say: "that is what school should be doing". i have been raging many times on HN how school needs to be reformed.

most kids finish school at 13

whereabouts are you, if you don't mind sharing? (feel free to send to my email in my profile if you want to keep it private)

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#58

Post by ashoeafoot »

bilekas wrote: post #45
ashoeafoot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The algo ironically also could give them feedback about the expected outcomes of those posts. 72 % of People who posted this ceased posting within a year. 33% where disconnected feom loved ones after a loved one passed away following giving this advice. Do you want to continue in rgis path?

The algorithm is self preserving, its goal seems not to inform but to generate engagement, how and what type of engagement seems to be irrelevant and secondary. It's genuinely why I view HN as one of the last bastions of good discussion.

We engage to feel good with minimal energy invested, so that is what the algo goes for. Imagine if the algo where like the best teacher you ever got, keeping you engaged by going out of your comfort zone , always egging you on like a proud parent. You go"look what i made" and he goes, "look what my boy made".. it could be so good.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#59

Post by OrvalWintermute »

an_guy wrote: post #55
al2o3cr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A child in my daughter’s daycare suffered febrile seizures and experienced an anoxic brain injury because the vaccine wasn’t safe. Also, Old Man Withers turned me into a newt!

Why is it that whenever someone shares anecdotal evidence of their friend or family member being affected by a vaccine, the first response is mocking them for being against the medicine? Suppose a commonly used drug caused severe reaction among a fringe group of people, you don't mock those people and call them anti-vax/unlucky. The pharma responsible for drug should look into the case and come up with guidelines for…

I think it is because they are anti-medicine and anti-science

Good medicine, Good science are wonders of the modern world that have the possibility of doing incredible miracles for health and longevity.

It speaks to polarization and othering of people with different opinions.

Re: Our sister died because of our mum's cancer conspiracy theories, say brothers

#60

Post by seec »

em-bee wrote: post #49
bilekas wrote: post #18

> The children absorbed outlandish ideas, including that the Royal Family were shape-shifting lizards, says Gabriel. "As a young child, you trust your parents. So you see that as a truth," he says. At what point does someone step in and call this child abuse, at the very least these parents are not capable of raising their children in a safe manner. > Kate Shemirani styles herself as "the Natural Nurse" on social med…

At what point does someone step in? at the same time when you tell the children that santa is not real. /s this is what school is for. teaching children to be critical and investigate claims no matter where they come from. incidentally, this is the reason why homeschooling is outlawed in germany. to prevent parents indoctrinating their children without the children getting a chance to learn about alternatives.

That's hilarious. Germany has the complete reverse problem; the indoctrination is largely happening at school. It's probably one of the worst countries in the EU on that matter.

It's also an extremely stupid and authoritarian law. The number of parents that would homeschool their children is rather low (as long as school is free) and even if they wanted, they probably couldn't because both parents need to work nowadays. Homeschooling is largely a rich people or alternative people affair, pretending that significant indoctrination can happen there is just a nice excuse to better subject children to the state indoctrination.

Also, this article is largely proof that public schooling is largely irrelevant when it comes to made up belief. But I guess we are still stuck in the (very wrong) blank state idea around human behavior/learning/growth. It's not going well.

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