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Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

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Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#51

Post by batista »

jyap wrote: post #32
batista wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the caption to the picture reads "Buzz Aldrin as captured by Neil Armstrong", who cares? I _effin_ care. E.g. I want a picture of Neil Armstrong for my article. Not a picture that _he_ took of somebody else. Not a quick sketch he did of his cat. I want a picture of HIM, preferably on the moon. That he "took the picture" is meaningless for the purposes of _showing_ the man in action. If I was writing about Knuth…

Find me a credible publication that will: A) Use the mentioned picture as the centerpiece to their article. B) State incorrectly that it is a picture of Neil Armstrong. Neither is likely to happen. It is just a common misconception that it is a picture of Neil Armstrong since it is the most famous picture of the mission and because people know Neil Armstrong. People see the picture and assume it is Neil Armstrong. Cr…

>Neither is likely to happen.

You'd be surprised. With the cost cutting of proof checking and editorial departments, and the rush to catch internet time news, I've seen much much worse misattributions and even hoaxes running around in respectable publications (far from only online ones).

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#52

Post by batista »

justin66 wrote: post #50
batista wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the caption to the picture reads "Buzz Aldrin as captured by Neil Armstrong", who cares? I _effin_ care. E.g. I want a picture of Neil Armstrong for my article. Not a picture that _he_ took of somebody else. Not a quick sketch he did of his cat. I want a picture of HIM, preferably on the moon. That he "took the picture" is meaningless for the purposes of _showing_ the man in action. If I was writing about Knuth…

> I _effin_ care. E.g. I want a picture of Neil Armstrong for my article. Not a picture that _he_ took of somebody else. Not a quick sketch he did of his cat. I want a picture of HIM, preferably on the moon. Neil is visible in the photo, in the reflection on Aldrin's visor. In this photo which he took while walking ON THE MOON. Which, if you take a step back and lose the journalistic tendentiousness, you will realize…

>Which, if you take a step back and lose the journalistic tendentiousness, you will realize makes this about as cool as any picture ever taken.

If I want to depict Neil Amstrong, the "coolness" of a picture showing some other guy does not come into play at all.

Isn't it obvious?

I mean, seriously, "as cool as any picture ever taken"? "visible on the reflection on the visor"?

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#53

Post by keithpeter »

jpdoctor wrote: post #45
jahewson wrote: post #18

Hey, it actually is a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon - you can just about see him taking the photo, reflected in Buzz's sun visor :)

I concur! In fact, I think this would have made an excellent release of the "first man on the moon" photo; It's just a recrop of their original: http://i.imgur.com/PyiKT.jpg , so no disallowed manipulation.

Nice idea for my wallpaper (1080p) for next week.

I fiddled the curves a bit on the inset photo, but still need to do something with that blue/violet cast on the bottom right.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8403291/armstrongs-picture-of-aldrin...

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#54

Post by nrbafna »

ralfd wrote: post #48
nrbafna wrote: post #39

This is from a reddit ama where the OP has worked through Apollo 1-14. He claims it was Neil in the photo - http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/xove1/iama_97_year_old...

This is actually rather important. But I guess there is a high chance he misremembered? Hm. When they sent out a correction this should be able to track down?

Well. What he says about including stripes in the astronaut suits for future missions checks out - http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CDRStripes.html

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#55

Post by dustincoates »

nrbafna wrote: post #39

This is from a reddit ama where the OP has worked through Apollo 1-14. He claims it was Neil in the photo - http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/xove1/iama_97_year_old...

There were a ton of huge inaccuracies in that AMA. Here's a few things that were pointed out to be wrong: http://es.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/xp6il/methusela1915_i...

I wouldn't rely on that for any real information.

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that the suit says "E Aldrin" on it. I have a hard time believing they swapped suits, too.

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#56

Post by chollida1 »

jyap wrote: post #28
batista wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. And who cares if it isn't a picture of Neil? Editors searching for pictures of Neil? Because he was the one that died recently and they have to write stories about him?

The only people who care that it isn't a picture of Neil Armstrong are: - People who know it isn't a picture of Neil Armstrong and feel like they need to point that out. - People who are bothered by the slight inaccuracy that it isn't a picture taken of him. Either way, he took the picture. He took one of the most famous pictures. If the caption to the picture reads "Buzz Aldrin as captured by Neil Armstrong", who ca…

> - People who are bothered by the slight inaccuracy that it isn't a picture taken of him.

Umm the fact that its a picture of some one else is way more than a "slight" inaccuracy.

you could probably replace photos of Stalin and Churchill and no one would care about that "slight inaccuracy" :)

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#57

Post by jopt »

jyap wrote: post #28
batista wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. And who cares if it isn't a picture of Neil? Editors searching for pictures of Neil? Because he was the one that died recently and they have to write stories about him?

The only people who care that it isn't a picture of Neil Armstrong are: - People who know it isn't a picture of Neil Armstrong and feel like they need to point that out. - People who are bothered by the slight inaccuracy that it isn't a picture taken of him. Either way, he took the picture. He took one of the most famous pictures. If the caption to the picture reads "Buzz Aldrin as captured by Neil Armstrong", who ca…

What. Slight? What could be more inaccurate?

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#58

Post by Karunamon »

batista wrote: post #49
waterlesscloud wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the photo that Neil Armstrong took on THE MOON to a sketch of his cat is silly, and you know it. Also, every single image you see of Saturn from Cassini has been manipulated. Almost every photo of Mars from Curiosity is manipulated. So what then?

> Comparing the photo that Neil Armstrong took on THE MOON to a sketch of his cat is silly, and you know it. Sure, but not much sillier that saying that putting up a picture of a different person is a "slight inaccuracy". > Also, every single image you see of Saturn from Cassini has been manipulated. Almost every photo of Mars from Curiosity is manipulated. So what then? Notice how I, unlike TFA, never said anything…

>and not creative image doctoring like pasting some space or removing a person USSR style.

I can't possibly be the only person confused by the author's visceral reaction to pasting in a block of black above a photo, or slightly offended by your comparing it to USSR-esque person removal.

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#59

Post by justin66 »

batista wrote: post #52
justin66 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I _effin_ care. E.g. I want a picture of Neil Armstrong for my article. Not a picture that _he_ took of somebody else. Not a quick sketch he did of his cat. I want a picture of HIM, preferably on the moon. Neil is visible in the photo, in the reflection on Aldrin's visor. In this photo which he took while walking ON THE MOON. Which, if you take a step back and lose the journalistic tendentiousness, you will realize…

> Which, if you take a step back and lose the journalistic tendentiousness, you will realize makes this about as cool as any picture ever taken. If I want to depict Neil Amstrong, the "coolness" of a picture showing some other guy does not come into play at all. Isn't it obvious? I mean, seriously, "as cool as any picture ever taken"? "visible on the reflection on the visor"?

The wide use of the photo over the years is proof enough that it's a great photo. People love it. With all due respect to the copy editing topic of the linked column, people don't care in the slightest about journalistic rule lawyering regarding the criteria that should be used for selecting photographs for a news article. They care about accuracy, which evidently isn't the same thing.

If there are any worries about misunderstanding, make sure the photo's caption is clear. To someone who isn't part of the Church of Photojournalism, it honestly seems very simple.

If you are concerned with "depicting Neil Armstrong" above all else you're not going to want a photo with his visor down in any case. But that makes excluding this photo seem every bit as stubborn as excluding a photo of a Saturn V rocket or something.

Re: Why it's so hard to find a photo of Neil Armstrong on the moon

#60

Post by jeffool »

brudgers wrote: post #44

One idea: Use this picture of Neil shot immediately after his historic walk on the moon. After reading the Armstrong family's statement last night, that's the photo which expresses the legacy he wished. He looks ready to wink back. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/AS11-37-5528HR.jpg

If I still worked in news (I worked in TV) I'd go with this, definitely. "Neil Armstrong, seen here back in the lunar module after his historic moon walk..."

Also, the picture of Armstrong climbing back in the Lunar Module is fine.

Conversely, to those arguing the use of a reflective shot of Aldrin's visor? I think that's worth including if I'd also included that shot inside the LM. An close up of this picture, showing Alrin's helmet, backpack, and shoulders, reading "Neil Armstrong took most of the photographs on the moon that had an astronaut in them. However he can be seen clearly in the reflection of Buzz Aldrin's visor here." Just pair it with a matching (size-wise) photograph, unzoomed.

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