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Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

kianbradley.com

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Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#51

Post by awesome_dude »

rockskon wrote: post #21
gpm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because knowingly helping people commit crimes generally counts the same as committing the crime yourself. I.e. federally in the U.S. under 18 USC 2a https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2 The software you're running being "simple" isn't a defence for doing illegal things with it - like aiding others commit crimes. There are a few internet/copyright safe harbor provisions (in the US) that might maybe (probably…

Wouldn't particular knowledge be required? I'm sure Google devs know in the abstract that Google search is used by criminals to help them in committing crimes, but that clearly is not illegal in and of itself.

IANAL, but I would think that Google's customers are overwhelmingly using the service for "legitimate" activities, and Google makes attempts to limit use of their tools in the commission of a crime.

It's kind of like Kim Dotcom's defence of his systems where he was saying that he was making attempts to remove content from his systems in compliance with DCMA requests. That is, the claim is his systems were legal because even though people were using them for illegitimate purposes, he was actively working to prevent that from happening.

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#52

Post by senko »

gpm wrote: post #46
senko wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the OP states he was using the tracker for lawful purposes: > So I was, uh, downloading some linux isos, like usual. Nothing to see here, move along. Seriously though, the OP makes the same argument and concludes that: > I was spooked. [...] I shut down the VPS and deleted the domain quickly after confirming it works. IANAL but this clearly shows the OP didn't intend to facilitate crime and shut it down after see…

I, and I think OP, were both addressing the hypothetical in which he continued to run the service, not the reality where he quickly shut it down. > But the OP states he was using the tracker for lawful purposes: That quote is a confession that he was committing copyright infringement. Courts and juries and not obliged to ignore the ", uh," part. Probably (in the very unlikely event where he is charged) the best defen…

> That quote is a confession that he was committing copyright infringement.

I know, "linux ISOs" has always been a joke "rationale" :)

I do think we're in agreement.

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#53

Post by drob518 »

gpm wrote: post #32
rockskon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't particular knowledge be required? I'm sure Google devs know in the abstract that Google search is used by criminals to help them in committing crimes, but that clearly is not illegal in and of itself.

There's definitely a mens rea requirement here, that you know that a crime is being committed and that you intend to facilitate it. I doubt it requires particularized knowledge that "this specific request" is for a crime... I'm still not a lawyer. Running a service primarily for legal purposes that some criminals can take advantage of is pretty different with regards to intent than reviving an old domain name that yo…

IANAL, but I would think you’d also have to have specific mens rea. That is, it’s not illegal to use a torrent or facilitate a torrent, because it’s just a protocol that can be used for good or bad. If you were hosting movies and songs, whatever the protocol, that’s when you’re specifically engaging in piracy. It’s sort of like driving a car isn’t illegal, but being the getaway driver for a bank robbery is, even if you never enter the bank. The car isn’t the problem, it’s what you are using it for. It’s also not illegal to sell a car to a bank robber, even if that’s a possibility, unless you reasonably believe that the particular person you were selling it to is a bank robber and will be using it to commit a crime. The mere fact that somebody could use your tracker for piracy doesn’t loop you into the conspiracy unless you specifically know that they are committing piracy. This is why the telecom companies all have carve outs for this sort of thing. Carrying packets or voice traffic of someone planning a crime doesn’t loop the telecom company into the conspiracy.

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#54

Post by jmyeet »

I have a theory that BitTorrent is used as a command and control mechanism for botnets.

We've seen various methods of botnet and malware control like rotating domain names that were successfully reverse engineered and used to trigger a kill switch for WannaCry, famously [1].

BitTorrent is known to be resilient, particularly if you use multiple trackers, proxies, etc that are all built into the infrastructure.

[1]: https://www.wired.com/2017/05/accidental-kill-switch-slowed-...

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#55

Post by accrual »

mdaniel wrote: post #41
sweeter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely a few. Media companies often send out infringement notices to ISPs to be forwarded to the user and I would guess this is how they get those IPs

My understanding is that mere swarm membership is sufficient, no need to host anything That's my understanding of why private trackers ban folks who upload private .torrent files to public trackers because the infohash is a rendezvous point of private and public consumers via DHT

It's kind of like walking into a room of people with full or partial copies of a copyrighted pie, but there's one person in the corner (the copyright holder or someone on their behalf) taking notes of everyone who comes and asks for a slice.

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#57

Post by 1970-01-01 »

prettyblocks wrote: post #28

Not a lawyer, but I think intent is a big part of legality and I hope that doing something like this for research purposes should be relatively safe.

If done in good faith[1], this is allowed.

[1]https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/press-release/file/1507...

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#59

Post by KomoD »

diggan wrote: post #2

> Is this legal? Why wouldn't it be? You're not actually hosting a tracker in this case, only looking at incoming connections. And even if you do run a tracker, hard to make the case that the tracker itself is illega. Hosting something like opentrackr is like hosting a search engine, how they respond to legal takedown requests is where the crux is at, and whatever infra sits around the tracker, so police and courts c…

(IANAL) It can be both legal and illegal

If you don't respond to takedowns, that's probably leaning towards being illegal*

If you respond to takedowns and blacklist the hashes, you're most likely fine*

*obviously depends on the jurisdiction and on whether matching hashes to IP:PORT is considered distribution/facilitation/whatever (take TPB's case as an example)

I know someone who ran a pretty large tracker for years, when he received a takedown he just blacklisted the hashes and he's been fine so far.

Re: Resurrecting a dead torrent tracker and finding 3M peers

#60

Post by jrochkind1 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #13

IANAL, but my understanding is that running a content-neutral tracker is legal in the US. In other jurisdictions it most certainly is not, and the VPS maybe in a different jurisdiction and the .si TLD definitely is.

Googling, there's been at least one tracker shut down by US law enforcement, EliteTorrents [2005] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-may-26-fi-torre...

I think there have probably been more. There are definitely more that had civil suits with MPAA etc suing for damages.

It may be somewhat harder to make the case in the US, but a tracker where a great majority of what's listed is copyrighted, I'm pretty sure it can be shut down in the US.

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