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Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

51–60 of 116 posts

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] I would imagine the constant is closer to 15-20% these days. On what basis?

On basis of spending a lot of my teenage time browsing 4chan, I'd say it's not 15%, but closer to 69% or even whole 420%. You just loose faith in humanity from spending too much time on the internet.

I doubt 4chan is representative for the entire Internet.

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#52
post #39

My small daughter is mildly autistic. Very friendly but overly obsessed with the life of bugs and very concerned about human like tendencies in bugs. She personifies other objects but it seems hard to tell if that’s just a child thing or one of her symptoms. Even with the bugs I’m always wondering if that’s a kid thing too, but the fact the other kids her age couldn’t care less about bugs makes me wonder if it’s auti…

It's both. Child neurological development goes through a lot of mirroring the environments they observe in play, and mapping them onto stuffed animals, dolls, bugs, pets, toys, etc. There's an age where kids are developing interiority (children do not have an "inner voice" and do not develop it until 5-7, typically) and during that time, a lot of their play is them learning the rules and developing empathy (children do not have a concept of being able to put themselves in others shoes until age 3-7, typically).

Autistic children are often times very interested in learning rules and applying them in other settings. Autistic young women, especially, are navigating a complicated social environment that strongly encourages them to understand the rules of what it means to be a woman in society. Learning those rules and then saying, "Ok little (bugs|stuffed animals|toys), here's how things work" is both a thing kids do and a thing autistic kids do.

Couple that with special interests (dinosaurs, trains, bugs, bones, whatever), and you'll often see autistic kids getting WAY into one particular thing and then mapping the world they experience onto that thing.

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#53
post #5

I always thought this was something I got from watching The Brave Little Toaster and similar content when I was tiny.

Better than Toy Story, but Toy Story is much better known and does the same thing

Yeah..except that The Brave Little Toaster has a specific anti consumerism slant..

I can't imagine why the toy based story that was designed from the get-go to shovel plastic into kids via emotional hooks took off better and was better supported by the industry...

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#55

"Normal people" do it, too - ask a sailor about ship. Some people name and gender their vehicles. To a certain extent, it comes from close association with object. I'm the guy who drives around with a cartoon drawing of a robot in his car that will utterly destroy anyone who tries to steal it, so I ought to know.

Sailors, at least the ones I know, are often superstitious because 1) marine tradition is filled with legends and beliefs 2) the sea is cruel and unforgiving.

No one wants to be sinking while remembering that they forgot to christen the boat , they just killed a seabird, and they stepped onto the boat with their left foot.

My point: I see marine superstition as a cultural affect rather than a sign of any such other psychology.

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#56
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of languages assign nouns to a noun class. They are (usually) not ascribing a biological gender to an object. "Gender" is a horrendously bad name for the concept.

It's not the worst name for the concept when you include "a male" and "a female" as prominent nouns in that noun class. If you adjust your language depending on whether you are addressing a man or a woman (or speaking about a man or woman), then it's definitely also social gender (as well as grammatical gender), even if those two concepts are separate.

Except there's no mandate that "a male" and "a female" are of different noun classes, nor are the nouns for man/woman abnormally privileged in most cases. I know Dutch has fused masculine/feminine nouns into a "common" gender, leaving the language with effectively only the common and neuter genders. If I remember correctly, a similar thing has happened in Swedish and Danish. Some languages have various concepts of animacy driving the system. Some languages have shitloads of noun classes.

You can adjust your language depending on the biological gender of who you're addressing in English, but English doesn't have grammatical gender in any meaningful way. The concepts are largely orthogonal.

Calling it gender really is just a bad, misleading name in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#57
post #24

> We carried out an online survey, administered via Survey Monkey This type of thing, where they do some statistics on survey data, seems to be fairly typical in psychology research. But I find it hard to believe that you can actually get good data from self-reporting in surveys. There must be selection effects: " The survey was advertised on social media and through the researchers’ own networks ". And the questions…

Yup. There's so much pressure to publish something that we consistently see attempts to extract data from noise.

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it hard to believe that you can get actually get good data from self-reporting in surveys. Especially when you consider the Lizardman's Constant of 4% https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and... This article was written in 2013. The Internet has become a significantly more toxic place since then, and I would imagine the constant is closer to 15-20% these days.

> […] I would imagine the constant is closer to 15-20% these days. On what basis?

Based on what I learned from this video: https://youtu.be/r7l0Rq9E8MY?t=2

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#59
post #24

> We carried out an online survey, administered via Survey Monkey This type of thing, where they do some statistics on survey data, seems to be fairly typical in psychology research. But I find it hard to believe that you can actually get good data from self-reporting in surveys. There must be selection effects: " The survey was advertised on social media and through the researchers’ own networks ". And the questions…

[deleted]

Re: Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

#60
post #6

I always had the impression it was the other way around, non autistic 'normal' people personifies non human objects. Anyway I always had a pet theory that the reason some people are fooled into thinking LLM text output is a real human with feelings, and some aren't, comes down to this difference in brains. (Personally I never feel like the LLM is a real human and I'm kind of autistic too.)

Some scientists believe that autistic people have different levels of empathy than allistic people. Sometimes this manifests as higher levels of empathy for objects and animals, or higher emotional empathy. I'm dx'd autistic, and I am someone who will weep openly or experience unbridled joy alongside, say, a movie about a bunch of animals surviving tough times. But if I see an adult human make a poor choice and suffe…

> it's apparently not at all uncommon for autistic folks to have this sort of extremely strong empathy response in some cases, while a totally flat empathy response in others

to add another datapoint to this, the only movie that's ever made me cry is Wall-E. I felt so sad for him at the beginning of it, all alone and trying to complete an impossible, unappreciated task.

I'm sure there are objectively sadder movies out there, but not for me.

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