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Working on databases from prison

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Re: Working on databases from prison

#51

Post by abxyz »

qualeed wrote: post #46
abxyz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...in America he's innocent until proven guilty... ...in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't extend to internet comments.

> Innocent until proven guilty doesn't extend to internet comments. That's not a good thing. Edit: I cannot really believe that this, of all comments, is controversial. Living life treating everyone as guilty until they prove themselves innocent is... just shitty, let alone exhausting. Do people forget about how many times reddit and other ruined innocent people's lives? Sometimes HN amazes me with new technology, in…

Yes, it is. The courts are flawed, the courts get things wrong all the time. Many innocent people are found guilty. If we must apply the legal standard to internet comments, must we condemn people we believe to be innocent? The legal standards exist for the system, not for people. Saying that the standard of "innocent until proven guilty" should apply outside of the legal system is lazy and avoiding making decisions for yourself about how you treat people.

People proven guilty are not necessarily guilty. People proven not guilty are not necessarily innocent. The legal standard exists because a system needs standards.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#52

Post by catigula »

foldr wrote: post #41
eddieroger wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your link: > The defendant, Preston Thorpe, appeals his conviction for possession of a controlled drug with intent to sell He may have done other things, but his conviction was for possession with intent, and that seems to be why he's locked up. It doesn't make anything else he's done acceptable, but in America he's innocent until proven guilty, and it doesn't seem he was found guilty of assault.

We're allowed to form judgments about people based on evidence that wouldn't be sufficient to convict them of a crime. The consequences of me forming the opinion that this guy is a domestic abuser are far lower than the consequences of a court doing so. And of course, even courts use a much lower evidential standard than 'innocent until proven guilty' when deciding civil cases. Making a derogatory comment about someo…

I agree with this sentiment but I'm also willing to explore/consider the possibility that "innocent until proven guilty" isn't strictly only useful as an esoteric legal construct, but a philosophy that could potentially have applicability to an individual's worldview.

That being said I wouldn't have much patience for a "merely" accused murderer or child predator in my personal life, just as I also don't have much patience for a doctor who refuses to prescribe me antibiotics because the chance they could help me is "only" 1%. I don't really care that it's socially irresponsible when it comes to my personal assessment of risk.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#53

Post by qualeed »

dylan604 wrote: post #45
qualeed wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems accurate. He was convicted of drug crimes, not assault. People are real quick to forget about innocent until proven guilty for some reason.

There's also a difference of being guilty of doing something but never having charges brought against you. Many times in domestic violence cases we see the victim not press charges. It doesn't mean the victim was not the recipient of violence.

Whatever speculations you want to make, the person was not convicted of assault.

It's not the place of random hacker news commenters to try to and hold assault against him because you think, after reading 2 minutes about the case, that he should have been convicted.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#54

Post by semiquaver »

dgb23 wrote: post #40
bjorkandkd wrote: post #17

[flagged]

I don't know what to make of this document and claim, is that a report, an actual conviction? I don't understand it. It definitely sounds horrible in any case. However, the point of a program of hiring or educating people who are in prison isn't to judge them. They are already in prison. 10years is a long time, so it's likely they did something bad and have been judged for it. This is to give people who are capable a…

It’s a judicial opinion denying his appeal. The facts listed are findings from the trial court where he was convicted on drug charges.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#55

Post by qualeed »

abxyz wrote: post #51
qualeed wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Innocent until proven guilty doesn't extend to internet comments. That's not a good thing. Edit: I cannot really believe that this, of all comments, is controversial. Living life treating everyone as guilty until they prove themselves innocent is... just shitty, let alone exhausting. Do people forget about how many times reddit and other ruined innocent people's lives? Sometimes HN amazes me with new technology, in…

Yes, it is. The courts are flawed, the courts get things wrong all the time. Many innocent people are found guilty. If we must apply the legal standard to internet comments, must we condemn people we believe to be innocent? The legal standards exist for the system, not for people. Saying that the standard of "innocent until proven guilty" should apply outside of the legal system is lazy and avoiding making decisions…

>The courts are flawed, the courts get things wrong all the time.

Is your assertion that random internet commenters get it right more than the courts...?

>"innocent until proven guilty" should apply outside of the legal system is lazy

How is guilty until proven innocent less "lazy"?

Re: Working on databases from prison

#56

Post by mcmcmc »

b0a04gl wrote: post #50

what if prison ends up becoming the most distraction-free dev environment. no meetings, no slack pings, no linkedin recruiters, just you, a terminal, and 10 years of uninterrupted focus. kinda terrifying how productive that sounds

No pings, just people who may decide to shiv or rape you

Re: Working on databases from prison

#57

Post by abxyz »

glommer wrote: post #37
bjorkandkd wrote: post #17

[flagged]

I am the one who hired Preston. Whatever he has done in the past, I have all the evidence in the world in front of me to assure me that he has a transformed heart. It is not a common thing to see, but here the fruits are clear. We are happy to have him with us.

If you're going to extend kindness to Preston then perhaps a little kindness towards others wouldn't go a miss either. Preston isn't rare, the prison system is filled with normal kind hearted people who were unfortunate in life and things went awry. Everyone deserves a chance, not just someone who can provide economic value to you.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#58

Post by diggan »

riv991 wrote: post #27
calmoo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend the author, but I think a more generous reading of this section from the blogpost: > A brief summary is that I'm currently serving prison time for poor decisions and lifestyle choices I made in my twenties, all related to drugs. Is that their poor decisions were related to drugs.

In his earlier blog post that this one links, he says: > I've spent just under 10 years of my life in Prison (all for non-violent drug crimes.)

Which doesn't seem to be wrong? At least from the linked document, he went to prison for non-violent drug crimes, unless I misunderstand what the document says?

Re: Working on databases from prison

#59

Post by komali2 »

voidUpdate wrote: post #3

I'm glad to hear accounts of people in the prison system who are given the opportunity to do some good. While I am admittedly less sympathetic of dealers, the fact that the author recognises that they were in a bad situation and have been able to make positive progress since being given the opportunity to is really nice to hear

I don't know the circumstances of this case, but in many states, e.g. Texas my home state, simply having above an arbitrarily defined amount of a given controlled substance automatically gets you tagged with "intent to sell." An overloaded court system combined with a pay-to-win "justice" system means a lot of people take the charge in their plea deal even if they aren't dealers.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#60

Post by giraffe_lady »

glommer wrote: post #37
bjorkandkd wrote: post #17

[flagged]

I am the one who hired Preston. Whatever he has done in the past, I have all the evidence in the world in front of me to assure me that he has a transformed heart. It is not a common thing to see, but here the fruits are clear. We are happy to have him with us.

So you've spoken to the wife?
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