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Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

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Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#51

Post by rcpt »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16
pkrecker wrote: post #6

I'm willing to pay more for a better ride experience: * Waymos are all the same. I underrated the value of this until I started taking Waymo more often. * I can control the music and volume with my phone. * I can listen to YouTube or take a call without AirPods. Sometimes I even hotspot and do some work. But most importantly Waymos all _drive_ the same way. I have had some really perplexing Uber drivers, either drivi…

I've been picked up multiple times by Uber drivers who have, essentially, bragged? about being drunk or high. I've also had multiple drivers in multiple countries try to sell me drugs. I also once had a driver in Chile who, somehow, micro-slept in stop and go traffic every time the car was stopped (which, was actually fascinating, and would've been very concerning if we ever got going more than like 10 mph). Women al…

I also had one of those drivers who would sleep in traffic. I assumed he was very sleepy deprived and it was stressing me out while we went over hwy 17 in Santa Cruz

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#52

Post by Jelthi »

cvsv wrote: post #47

The Waymo cars are really comfortable luxury Jaguars. For Uber and Lyft there are many price tiers, but to reliably get an equally or more comfortable car you probably need to book the black car options. I’m sure Uber / Lyft are way more expensive per mile than Waymo on that tier. In addition to all the things people have pointed out that makes it a better experience.

Almost every Uber Black and Black SUV I’ve ordered was a Chevy Suburban or GMC Yukon.

The quality is across the board, but one thing I’ve found consistent is the terrible quality seats. The seats feel like it’s just cardboard supporting you that pops in and out as you move with the car.

It’s rare to get an actual luxury car even when paying more.

Their promise of “professional” drivers is also wild. Sometimes you get a guy who’s friendly and seems eager to please and helpful with luggage, but I’ve had plenty of downright rude drivers who feel inconvenienced by my presence.

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#53

Post by username223 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16
pkrecker wrote: post #6

I'm willing to pay more for a better ride experience: * Waymos are all the same. I underrated the value of this until I started taking Waymo more often. * I can control the music and volume with my phone. * I can listen to YouTube or take a call without AirPods. Sometimes I even hotspot and do some work. But most importantly Waymos all _drive_ the same way. I have had some really perplexing Uber drivers, either drivi…

I've been picked up multiple times by Uber drivers who have, essentially, bragged? about being drunk or high. I've also had multiple drivers in multiple countries try to sell me drugs. I also once had a driver in Chile who, somehow, micro-slept in stop and go traffic every time the car was stopped (which, was actually fascinating, and would've been very concerning if we ever got going more than like 10 mph). Women al…

> I also once had a driver in Chile who, somehow, micro-slept in stop and go traffic every time the car was stopped

Imagine how desperate you would have to be to drive a cab when you're that sleep-deprived (probably haven't slept in 36 hours). Now imagine someone took that income away from you to give it to Sundar Pichai.

Yeah, sometimes it's unpleasant talking to a cabby, and sometimes he won't take a hint and stop talking. But you might learn something if you try to engage, instead of vibe-coding inside a surveillance robot.

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#54

Post by Jelthi »

toast0 wrote: post #28
Pingk wrote: post #8

The article doesn't mention if tips are included in their calculation (I suspect not). Are Uber/Lyft still cheaper after a 10-15% tip?

Assuming the rides are comparable, the article has a table which includes price/km (weird) of Lyft: $7.99, Uber: $8.36, and Waymo: $11.22. On that data, Waymo is roughly 40% higher, so way more than just a tip.

Assuming you didn’t upgrade to a different tier or pay for priority to get your uber faster or a nicer ride.

Uber also can increase the cost of the ride on you with unexpected routes or time. Yes you can complain, but I am sure plenty don’t even notice.

The math isn’t wrong, but it’s not so black and white.

I’m in the camp though of “I would pay double not to deal with a human”

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#55

Post by msgodel »

black3r wrote: post #49

my eastern european mind cannot comprehend 2 things: - if the average price per ride is $20.43 and average price per km is $11.22 does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry.. - if the higher prices are really influenced by costs of operating AV and not simple greed fueled by "offering a better product", how long it's gonna take to…

In most of the US it's not really possible/safe to walk between buildings just because of how everything got built. Often it would involve crossing six lane divided highways etc. That's why you see so many threads here talking about bikes/transit/urban design etc.

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#56

Post by klabb3 »

black3r wrote: post #49

my eastern european mind cannot comprehend 2 things: - if the average price per ride is $20.43 and average price per km is $11.22 does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry.. - if the higher prices are really influenced by costs of operating AV and not simple greed fueled by "offering a better product", how long it's gonna take to…

> does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry..

Idk about the average but I used to make a bad joke that walking is considered an extreme sport in most of the US. Sometimes, it’s for legit reasons such as extreme heat, literally no sidewalks, and areas that are perceived as dangerous because of the people there. Other times it’s just seen as a discomfort ”why walk when you can sit in a large car”. This is reflected in language, where ”walkable” is a frequent term used to describe the often rare parts of urban areas where you can comfortably walk from A to B. In EU there’s often no need for such a term.

> how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US?

Why not share my prediction, it’s probably as bad as the rest of them: I think this stage right now is about viability. Getting training data and real road experience, knowing what sensors are needed, range of road conditions, and grasping the enormous amount of novel traffic situations. I don’t think the purpose of the pricing is to make profits, but rather to test the markets end-to-end. Essentially, it’s an R&D project designed to inform and instill confidence for future investing and scaling.

As for replacing human drivers, I think it’ll be region-by-region with a very long tail. Since cost of labor varies so much, you’d need many years to bring costs of vehicles and maintenance down to be competitive. Plus, expanding to new regions have huge fixed costs and risk, much more so with AVs than normal ”Uber-style” services, with BYO labor & vehicle. These things need service centers, depots, offices, probably quite densely, no? Not to mention the politics, unions etc.

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#57

Post by taylodl »

bitpush wrote: post #41
taylodl wrote: post #3

I think my autonomavertigo would prevent me from ever taking a Waymo. Autonomavertigo (noun): The disorienting fear or anxiety experienced when surrendering control to autonomous systems, especially self-driving vehicles. Often accompanied by phantom brake-pumping and suspicious glances at the dashboard.

Not dismissing your concerns, but curious how you deal with elevators or escalators

Fixed track, few degrees of freedom

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#58

Post by eesmith »

black3r wrote: post #49

my eastern european mind cannot comprehend 2 things: - if the average price per ride is $20.43 and average price per km is $11.22 does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry.. - if the higher prices are really influenced by costs of operating AV and not simple greed fueled by "offering a better product", how long it's gonna take to…

I and a friend visited California, ending in San Diego. We figured out we didn't need the rental car for the last few days, so we asked the hotel clerk how to get back from the car dropoff at the airport. "You could Uber ..." but had no suggestion for an alternative.

We then looked at the map - https://www.brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=15/32.7236/-117.1779... . It was 2km, all on sidewalks. My friend dropped off the car and walked back.

It was lovely SoCal weather, with the sun close to setting over the bay. But the idea of walking it seemed far from at least the clerk's mind.

I believe many of my fellow Americans feel the same. I'm one of the oddballs that would walk 1 1/2 miles home after clubbing rather than drive - something likely only possible for guys as the streets at 1am were empty of anyone walking.

Which also means I've had my share of walks where the sidewalk ended, or where I wasn't legally allowed to go further. That's the American way. /s

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#59

Post by benterix »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #22
pkrecker wrote: post #6

I'm willing to pay more for a better ride experience: * Waymos are all the same. I underrated the value of this until I started taking Waymo more often. * I can control the music and volume with my phone. * I can listen to YouTube or take a call without AirPods. Sometimes I even hotspot and do some work. But most importantly Waymos all _drive_ the same way. I have had some really perplexing Uber drivers, either drivi…

Same here. Waymo doesn’t make me feel car sick, while aggressiveness-incentivized uber/lyft drivers do. Thinking of incentives, I wonder what happens when self driving is “solved” to the point they can start nickel and dime optimizing. I wonder if waymo starts driving overly aggressively at that point too.

If history can teach us something it is that they will.

Re: Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

#60

Post by femiagbabiaka »

xnx wrote: post #12
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #10

Electronic vehicles have made riding in Uber's an almost uniformly nauseating experience (literally). In order of preference I will walk/bike -> public transit -> Waymo -> drive myself -> consider staying at home -> Uber/Lyft

> Electronic vehicles have made riding in Uber's an almost uniformly nauseating experience I've heard this a lot. Are drivers heavily accelerating and decelerating?

Yes, although the deceleration seems to be partly due to regenerative braking. They're driving them like normal ICE cars.
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