A maths proof that is only true in Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#51

Post by IsTom » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:08 AM UTC

enricozb wrote: post #41

Qision wrote: post #32

What is so special about IUT? They say the theory is "out of this world" but in what sense exactly? Did Mochizuki found a new interesting way to look at some ideas?

I'm not a mathematician (but I've seen exact sequences and commutative diagrams) and to me the stuff out of his IUT papers[0] looks borderline LLM-generated. I can only imagine what the LaTeX source looks like. [0]: https://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~motizuki/Inter-universal%2...

Holy moly, they weren't joking about being out of this world.

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#52

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:11 AM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #2

I thought this would be something interesting, like the Sapir whorf hypothesis applied to mathematical reasoning - but no, it’s just the old classic professor/journal editor playing silly buggers in his power-tripping dotage scenario.

[deleted]

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#53

Post by fallingknife » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:12 AM UTC

bubblyworld wrote: post #27

When the likes of Peter Scholze (fields medal!) and other very high profile mathematicians find (serious) flaws in every posted manuscript about this... I mean, it's pretty clear to me what's going on. The proof just doesn't go through. I think the intrigue is mainly that it's at such a high level that lay mathematicians (like me) have no hope of understanding the debate. It's a situation that lends itself to crazy s…

The most damning part to me is that Mochizuki dismissed Joshi's work and insulted it. That's a crazy response to someone trying to improve on his theory, and shows more of a religious belief that a mathematical conclusion.

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#54

Post by netsharc » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:24 AM UTC

bubblyworld wrote: post #27

When the likes of Peter Scholze (fields medal!) and other very high profile mathematicians find (serious) flaws in every posted manuscript about this... I mean, it's pretty clear to me what's going on. The proof just doesn't go through. I think the intrigue is mainly that it's at such a high level that lay mathematicians (like me) have no hope of understanding the debate. It's a situation that lends itself to crazy s…

It's interesting how the debate is transferable to other topics. In theory maths should be able to be broken down to its basic components and be proven to be all true, or if something is false, then the whole thing collapses. But in practice things like this become so complex that it becomes a matter of conviction, influenced by things like ego.

Now imagine taking something like biology and vaccines. What happens if you rely on your experts and other rely on theirs, and they disagree?

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#55

Post by glimshe » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:26 AM UTC

stavros wrote: post #10

This title is extremely clickbaity. If a few people in Japan believe something that nobody else believes, that thing is not "only true in Japan", nobody knows if it's true anywhere.

I agree - it should have been "A math proof only accepted by Japanese mathematicians"

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#56

Post by stavros » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:40 AM UTC

glimshe wrote: post #55

stavros wrote: post #10

This title is extremely clickbaity. If a few people in Japan believe something that nobody else believes, that thing is not "only true in Japan", nobody knows if it's true anywhere.

I agree - it should have been "A math proof only accepted by Japanese mathematicians"

Not even that, "only accepted by some mathematicians". The fact that they're all in Japan is entirely incidental.

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#57

Post by Xmd5a » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:41 AM UTC

https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1bmp1vk/very_salty_mo...

Lot of gems in this thread. My favorite:

>>>After Mochizuki said that Scholze-Stix were “profoundly ignorant,” I’m starting to think that this phrase is a weird form of high praise from Mochizuki.

>>I feel like the most logical strategy for Mochizuki right now is to diss. Due to the currently prevalent (and not altogether unjustified) attitude towards Mochizuki and his "cult", any praise from him will condemn what he praises to oblivion, because anyone that he praises is guilty of being part of his "fan club" simply by association. In a way, this helps to give the perception that Joshi is "independent" and still worthy of being taken seriously, though Scholze has already been dismissive of Joshi's work from the beginning.

>Wow the implications of this perspective. Theatrical and operatic. If/when Joshi’s work is vindicated, Mochizuki comes out of the shadows and says “I’m sorry son I completely raked you through the coals so that you would gain sympathy and some credibility in the eyes of the wider mathematical community, so that eventually your ideas would be recognized and hence mine as well”. I would watch the fuck out of this movie.

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#58

Post by slyfox125 » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:53 AM UTC

ubercore wrote: post #47

When I saw the headline, I really hoped the article would be about some neuro-linguistic phenomenon that made native speakers of Japanese uniquely able to understand some mathematical proof.

I was also disappointed.

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#59

Post by slyfox125 » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 10:57 AM UTC

stavros wrote: post #37

fxwin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the implication was fairly clear here (Or maybe not "extremely" clickbaity as far as headlines are concerned)

Really? I clicked through and was wondering what weird and interesting mathematical twist I'd read about, and it turned out to be "well only a few people believe it, and they happen to live in Japan".

Agreed - it wasted my time.

Re: A maths proof that is only true in Japan

#60

Post by david-gpu » Fri, Jun 06, 2025, 11:14 AM UTC

anthk wrote: post #42

thaumasiotes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a few people in Japan believe something that nobody else believes, that thing is not "only true in Japan", nobody knows if it's true anywhere. Well, not quite. Sometimes believing in things makes them true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome

> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataque_de_nervios Spaniard here, this is nonsense, I'm pretty sure everyone in the world experienced a nervous breakdown/light panic attack.

Spaniard here as well. What we call "ataque de nervios" (a nervous breakdown) in Spain may not match the usage of that term in Puerto Rico, as it is discussed in the Wikipedia article.

Just because Puerto Ricans and Spaniards speak dialects of the same language doesn't make our culture all that similar, as you surely know. I would even say there is little in common culturally.