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KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

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Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#51

Post by jollyllama »

neepi wrote: post #30
jollyllama wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, relatively speaking, it solves the distribution problem. Distributing to your set of servers is easier than distributing to the set of desktops.

At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. I am glad Apple didn't do that and stayed native for nearly everything. This is a big selling point for me.

> At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability.

Yes. This is a cost and a benefit you weigh according to the capabilities of your development team. If there is nobody to outcompete you, that is factor into the decision.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#52

Post by Pet_Ant »

jollyllama wrote: post #31
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which also goes to show how backwards Linux package distribution is at this point. If you’re a small company, you can either build a web app which works everywhere; or you can deal with a distribution pushing out a buggy 3-year-old release against your will, with users harassing you about bugs. Packaging on Linux for normal desktop apps was dead on arrival. It was never viable except for niche open source apps. The r…

Sure, but this isn't particular to Linux. On what platform is it better? In terms of developer experience, web apps just beat distributing to the end-user device every time.

> On what platform is it better?

iOS

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#53

Post by neepi »

jollyllama wrote: post #51
neepi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. I am glad Apple didn't do that and stayed native for nearly everything. This is a big selling point for me.

> At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. Yes. This is a cost and a benefit you weigh according to the capabilities of your development team. If there is nobody to outcompete you, that is factor into the decision.

What happened to the customer in that line of thinking?

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#54

Post by bell-cot »

jeroenhd wrote: post #20

Something often ignored by articles like these: you can still use Windows 10 safely past the 10 year support period, if you pay for additional updates: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/extended... Realistically, many people will use registry hacks and other forms of piracy to get those updates for free, of course, just like people did with Windows 7. Only businesses or people afraid of viruses will…

Worth noting: For home users, the first year of that Win 10 Extended Support appears to cost only $30. Has MS decided that "make it cheap & easy to be legal" is their best counter-piracy strategy?

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#55

Post by jollyllama »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #35
jollyllama wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this isn't particular to Linux. On what platform is it better? In terms of developer experience, web apps just beat distributing to the end-user device every time.

Every other platform. Windows, Mac? Bundle your own updater. Or use Steam. Download one file and run with a click. PlayStation? Nintendo? Submit it, wait about two weeks, and out it goes. The Linux desktop is single handedly the worst distribution platform for an app developer, both in fragmentation and being unable to update your own software. The Linux desktop also had the arrogance to claim developers should do it…

> Windows, Mac

You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries.

> Steam

This is a third party marketplace that exists specifically to solve this problem and it carries all the baggage of any other third party marketplace, in the abstract.

> Video games

I'm not really shipping in these environments but I doubt it's that easy.

> Apple

They will happily stonewall you on many other small issues, however.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#56

Post by jollyllama »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #52
jollyllama wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this isn't particular to Linux. On what platform is it better? In terms of developer experience, web apps just beat distributing to the end-user device every time.

> On what platform is it better? iOS

It's not better for developers on iOS. There are loads of complaints about the costs imposed on devs and the hoops they have to jump through to publish in the app store.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#57

Post by jollyllama »

neepi wrote: post #53
jollyllama wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. Yes. This is a cost and a benefit you weigh according to the capabilities of your development team. If there is nobody to outcompete you, that is factor into the decision.

What happened to the customer in that line of thinking?

"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#59

Post by gjsman-1000 »

jollyllama wrote: post #55
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other platform. Windows, Mac? Bundle your own updater. Or use Steam. Download one file and run with a click. PlayStation? Nintendo? Submit it, wait about two weeks, and out it goes. The Linux desktop is single handedly the worst distribution platform for an app developer, both in fragmentation and being unable to update your own software. The Linux desktop also had the arrogance to claim developers should do it…

> Windows, Mac You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries. > Steam This is a third party marketplace that exists specifically to solve this problem and it carries all the baggage of any other third party marketplace, in the abstract. > Video games I'm not really shipping in these environments but I doubt it's that easy. > Apple They will happily stonewall you on many other small is…

> You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries.

This takes less than 15 minutes when you know how to do it. Arguing with a distribution takes weeks. Arguing with dozens of distributions could take months.

You are approaching this solely as a solo indie dev would - which is why, with few exceptions, only solo dev software is on Linux.

> They will happily stonewall you on many other small issues, however.

You should see even a fraction of what developers on Linux have been stonewalled over. I will literally take Apple.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#60

Post by gjsman-1000 »

jollyllama wrote: post #56
Pet_Ant wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On what platform is it better? iOS

It's not better for developers on iOS. There are loads of complaints about the costs imposed on devs and the hoops they have to jump through to publish in the app store.

Linux repositories are objectively worse. Unclear guidelines, zero publishing control, patches against your will, removal of donation links or warnings if you anger the distribution maintainers, having to do this over and over dozens of times, I would take Apple any day.

And as you can see, 99.9% of developers took Apple’s route. Market share can only partially explain this, as even tiny platforms like Palm had better support than Linux.

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