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Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

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Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#51

Post by thrance »

sunshine-o wrote: post #39

Something I have been wondering for a few years now before the whole DOGE, USAID thing. When the war in Ukraine started I heard Africa was relying on imports for food up to 85%. There are no word to describe how horrifying this is. To this day I still cannot believe it. 50% would sound intolerable to me. My question is: do we have reliable data on this ? flow of food to and within Africa? Also, if this is true, how c…

It all starts to make sense if you internalize the idea that developing the African continent was never a goal of the imperialist forces of the West (and certainly not of Russia or China either). Mostly, the West kept putting corrupt dictators in place to ensure cheap access to natural resources.

The instability of the continent is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#52

Post by tim333 »

sunshine-o wrote: post #39

Something I have been wondering for a few years now before the whole DOGE, USAID thing. When the war in Ukraine started I heard Africa was relying on imports for food up to 85%. There are no word to describe how horrifying this is. To this day I still cannot believe it. 50% would sound intolerable to me. My question is: do we have reliable data on this ? flow of food to and within Africa? Also, if this is true, how c…

They also export a lot of food. It partly a free trade thing - it's cheaper to grow grain in Ukraine. see https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unpacking-the-misconcepti...

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#54

Post by AlecSchueler »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #7

First to get this out of the way, I do not support the destruction of USAID and I definitely do not support the death of 300,000 people. This study brings to light a hidden problem of countries and individuals dependent on foreign aid. There should’ve been plans in place to reduce foreign aid dependency over time. Yes provide aid as needed & appropriate, but work out what it’ll take for the country to not need it and…

> There should’ve been plans in place to reduce foreign aid dependency over time

Even with the best such plan, pulling the plug without warning would be catastrophic.

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#55

Post by larrled »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #33
rimbo789 wrote: post #20

Doge was a bad idea done poorly. It served no purpose other than to hurt people and win some headlines. We will be feeling the consequences for years to come.

Wasn't the purpose to allow foreign influence to get access to governmental systems and data?

OMB got hacked years ago by the Chinese. Access to our systems and data by Xi/Putin is very pre-DOGE. Maybe they made it less secure, say from not very secure to super not very secure. I’d be willing to believe that, but the claimant has to first admit the systems are already open to foreigner influence/domestic spies.

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#56

Post by larrled »

thrance wrote: post #51
sunshine-o wrote: post #39

Something I have been wondering for a few years now before the whole DOGE, USAID thing. When the war in Ukraine started I heard Africa was relying on imports for food up to 85%. There are no word to describe how horrifying this is. To this day I still cannot believe it. 50% would sound intolerable to me. My question is: do we have reliable data on this ? flow of food to and within Africa? Also, if this is true, how c…

It all starts to make sense if you internalize the idea that developing the African continent was never a goal of the imperialist forces of the West (and certainly not of Russia or China either). Mostly, the West kept putting corrupt dictators in place to ensure cheap access to natural resources. The instability of the continent is a feature, not a bug.

So all in on the DOGE cuts then?

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#57

Post by BryantD »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #7

First to get this out of the way, I do not support the destruction of USAID and I definitely do not support the death of 300,000 people. This study brings to light a hidden problem of countries and individuals dependent on foreign aid. There should’ve been plans in place to reduce foreign aid dependency over time. Yes provide aid as needed & appropriate, but work out what it’ll take for the country to not need it and…

Yeah; you’re missing that USAID work included developmental work as well as pure relief. There’s a process for closing missions in countries that no longer need assistance, even.

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#58

Post by exceptione »

sillyfluke wrote: post #50
exceptione wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but work out what it’ll take for the country to not need it and try to get there.. One moment. You are just asking to increase the program that will take generations, while being dependent on factors you don't influence. Many African countries are overrun by Russian wagnerites, who protect local war lords and take control of natural resources. Part of the program is to ensure ongoing chaos and prevent local develop…

Although I think your general position is by and large correct, it would test the limits of credulity to think that previous US administrations did not use USAID to extract concessions from African countries for decades prior. The case can be made that it is the better of three evils perhaps, but how far one can argue past that is a more difficult proposition. And one also needs to explain why Russia, who prefers mak…

  > it would test the limits of credulity to think that previous US administrations 
  > did not use USAID to extract concessions from African countries for decades prior.
Sure. But it is about what strings are attached. If we normalize self serving transactionalism, we will self-corrupt.

The correct strings to attach would be those which pushes towards a democratic rule of law, which would eventually enable the affected society to self-sustain them. Now you can already hear the bots coming out of the woods: "who is the west to tell countries what is right/WOKE!/ western colonialism" etc.

We should never take advantage of a country in need. Our philosophy is win-win.

  > Russia, who prefers making deals with a single person on the other side (ie a dictator)
Sure, and they do that too! But not all governments are in official control of all their territory. The Kremlin network, just like the current USA government, ascribe to the notion of "might makes right". Helping a local warlord making a coup to extract more is business as usual.

The war in the west is not about Trump, nor about transgenders, but about the mind of normal citizens. How much of this criminal mindset has been normalized already?

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#59

Post by larrled »

Molitor5901 wrote: post #48
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #7

First to get this out of the way, I do not support the destruction of USAID and I definitely do not support the death of 300,000 people. This study brings to light a hidden problem of countries and individuals dependent on foreign aid. There should’ve been plans in place to reduce foreign aid dependency over time. Yes provide aid as needed & appropriate, but work out what it’ll take for the country to not need it and…

Rather than dismantling USAID it should have been reformed. The U.S. should have a single point of foreign aid, but that aid should be highly structured, audited, and at least a few legal constraints that cannot be adjusted or reinterpreted by future generations. I agree, at this point it does seem like there was enormous fraud at USAID and some very bad behavior. I can only deduce that the reason why it stayed hidde…

I don’t think enormous fraud has been uncovered. The argument, I don’t buy personally, is that the only way to reform such a beast is to kill it and start over with a totally new entity. Other than thousands of deaths now and downstream geopolitical instability threatening more in the future, we’ll have to wait and see if this will help with the budget deficit as promised by the paragon of credibility Elon Musk.

Re: Doge cuts to USAid blamed for 300k deaths – most of them children

#60

Post by exceptione »

sillyfluke wrote: post #50
exceptione wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but work out what it’ll take for the country to not need it and try to get there.. One moment. You are just asking to increase the program that will take generations, while being dependent on factors you don't influence. Many African countries are overrun by Russian wagnerites, who protect local war lords and take control of natural resources. Part of the program is to ensure ongoing chaos and prevent local develop…

Although I think your general position is by and large correct, it would test the limits of credulity to think that previous US administrations did not use USAID to extract concessions from African countries for decades prior. The case can be made that it is the better of three evils perhaps, but how far one can argue past that is a more difficult proposition. And one also needs to explain why Russia, who prefers mak…

... I will add one more bit food for thought: if people started to realize that "multi-polar world" is dictator-lingo for "hegemons exploiting smaller countries", and what it means in practical matters, of which this topic is just a single instance, how many would still prefer it?
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