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Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

pediatrics.aappublications.org

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Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#51

Post by egiva »

afitnerd wrote: post #41

"It was also influenced by the educational level of the parents, a higher rate of success being associated with fewer years of education attained by mother and father combined." This seems counterintuitive to me. A LOWER educational level of the parents correlated to a HIGHER rate of success of escape, it seems.

I wonder how that statement is influenced by investigator bias - in the 1950's where "street smarts" (working class parents, working class background) somehow viewed socially as superior in these situations when compared with educated families?

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#53

Post by K2h »

afitnerd wrote: post #41

"It was also influenced by the educational level of the parents, a higher rate of success being associated with fewer years of education attained by mother and father combined." This seems counterintuitive to me. A LOWER educational level of the parents correlated to a HIGHER rate of success of escape, it seems.

This was the section of the article that caught my attention as well.

My guess is when a child is use to being rescued or cared for after a very very short time, they learn quickly to do (or try) things themselves and not rely on parents, care givers, or others.

I struggle with this notion in raising my own child. I want her to learn - be self sufficient and resourceful, but I don't want her to suffer for it, or not trust people.

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#54

Post by roel_v »

sp332 wrote: post #48
lolcraft wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please . As if no emotionally healthy kid ever spent more than three minutes alone in the dark, after waking from a nightmare for instance. And why the hell would they find out? A post-study review in which they are told "mommy and daddy hate your guts"?

It's not 3 minutes, it's 3 minutes after they're so emotionally worked up they're crying. Finding out that your parents heard you but just ignored you is going to make you trust them less. (How do you define "emotionally healthy"? I grew up in a really nice home but my brother and I still have some problems.)

Do you have children? Children cry as an expression of many things, because they can't express themselves in other ways yet. You make it sound like once children get to a state of crying, they must have endured a lot already, which is not true. Allowing children to cry for several minutes at a time before going to check up on them is a pedagogically sound and normal technique for teaching children to go to sleep by themselves, for example.

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#55

Post by vacri »

nitrogen wrote: post #39
vacri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is: these days you wouldn't need a study. All you'd need to do is cause a PR ruckus and it would change. The issue with ethics in this experiment is not "the researchers might be creepy people", it's that it violates the basic idea that human experimentation on non-consenting people shouldn't cause harm (which includes negative emotions like fear, embarassment, etc). Sometimes such experimentation does get…

According to the linked abstract, the study considered how to change fridge doors. In other words, the question being answered was, "What style of door is easiest for children to open from the inside?" Given that many (most? all?) fridges of 1958 had locking latches that opened only from the outside , it's not inconceivable that moving to a magnetically sealed door like modern fridges was not seen as a trivial, or th…

You both raised good points. I guess I was more responding to the implications around ethics than the design.

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#56

Post by sp332 »

roel_v wrote: post #54
sp332 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 3 minutes, it's 3 minutes after they're so emotionally worked up they're crying. Finding out that your parents heard you but just ignored you is going to make you trust them less. (How do you define "emotionally healthy"? I grew up in a really nice home but my brother and I still have some problems.)

Do you have children? Children cry as an expression of many things, because they can't express themselves in other ways yet. You make it sound like once children get to a state of crying, they must have endured a lot already, which is not true. Allowing children to cry for several minutes at a time before going to check up on them is a pedagogically sound and normal technique for teaching children to go to sleep by t…

Sure, I'm not saying parents have to come running every time or anything. The point is that letting a kid cry until he goes back to sleep is consistent. Locking your kid in a box to see what happens is not. How will the kid know next time he gets stuck, that it's not just another test? And since the kids are still learning how to communicate, adding a continuing doubt that maybe their parents understand them fine but have chosen to ignore them isn't going to help.

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#57

Post by zuralski »

I am very surprised nobody has picked up this line for discussion: " Success in escaping [..] was also influenced by the educational level of the parents, a higher rate of success being associated with fewer years of education attained by mother and father combined. "

There's no attempt at explanation for this in the article itself..

Would it be safe to deduce that the more educated "you" are, the more passive (or "inactive") you are in the face of danger?

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#58

Post by mistercow »

nitrogen wrote: post #7

It would be good to add (1958) to the title -- I doubt such an experiment would fly today, and this presents a fascinating look back in history both at the state of experimental ethics and the development of modern refrigerator doors. The only experience I have with fridges so old is the one that my grandfather rotated 90 degrees and buried in his yard, to serve as a root cellar. I think the door may have had an actu…

I actually found it quite an interesting experience to read the article and only have the date revealed at the end. Obviously I knew it wasn't recent, but it was interesting to read about the study and have no clear frame of context.

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#59

Post by saalweachter »

afitnerd wrote: post #41

"It was also influenced by the educational level of the parents, a higher rate of success being associated with fewer years of education attained by mother and father combined." This seems counterintuitive to me. A LOWER educational level of the parents correlated to a HIGHER rate of success of escape, it seems.

It's also possible that some of the lower income children had already been stuck in a refrigerator while playing outside, and had practice at the task. Ten seconds to escape is pretty impressive!

Re: Behavior of young children in a situation simulating entrapment in refrigerators

#60

Post by bryanlarsen »

gjm11 wrote: post #12

HN article title should probably have (1958) appended to it. Incidentally, see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2586/is-it-impossib... for a bit more on the subject.

Interesting, that article claims that magnetic seals were invented well before 1958 but not adopted until 1958 when it was mandated by legislation.
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