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Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

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Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#51

Post by Propelloni »

keiferski wrote: post #36
ikr678 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a bit of projection on your part, not everyone is scared of naughty words. It was the Australian word of the year in 2024 and appears in our senate hearing transcripts.

It has nothing to do with my own personal opinion on vulgar words. It's a basic understanding of how the political system works. The name of a political movement matters. Always has, always will. It's no different for adjacent concepts that describe a phenomenon the movement is organizing against.

I think I get your meaning, but it cuts both ways. The angsty populists of today celebrate the transgression, ie. showing bad manners, dumbing down language, or flaunting low concepts.

Giving something a derogatory name that the yellow press (or rather some Telegram group) can sling around to vent their frustration and fear could be a win in this place. Of course, leadership persons of such groups are usually just demagogues looking out for their personal gain, so it might just as well be another rallying cry leading to really bad policies hitting those that vote in favor the most. But such is the world today ;)

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#52

Post by like_any_other »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #45
bambax wrote: post #27

The article is very long; that part is fascinating and a fantastic suggestion: > Europe and Canada have passed strong right-to-repair legislation, but those efforts ""have been hamstrung by the anti-circumvention laws"" (like the DMCA). (...) That raises the question of why these countries don't repeal their versions of the DMCA. > The answer is tariffs, it seems. The US trade representative has long threatened count…

I agree with him that the retaliatory tariffs don't make much sense but equally basically throwing out copyright law would be crazy, as the US would likely respond in kind and it'd probably hurt Europe more in the long run. They should stop the anti-competitive practices that prevent third-party app stores and so on though.

Getting rid of circumvention and reverse-engineering bans is not remotely "copyright law". It is restoring basic ownership rights to our own property.

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#53

Post by card_zero »

keiferski wrote: post #28
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is tone policing. "Why are you being so impolite about your abuse?" The terminology is irrelevant. Senators and judges won't deal with this because they're being paid not to, not because there's a rude word in the name. Government itself has been enshittified, clearly and comprehensively.

No, it’s just basic communication skills. Which seems to be a tough ask these days.

Cory Doctorow suggests using "platform decay" if the term enshittification bothers you.

https://pluralistic.net/2024/10/14/pearl-clutching/

"just use one of the dozens of words that failed to gain public attention over the past 25 years".

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#54

Post by amiga386 »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #45
bambax wrote: post #27

The article is very long; that part is fascinating and a fantastic suggestion: > Europe and Canada have passed strong right-to-repair legislation, but those efforts ""have been hamstrung by the anti-circumvention laws"" (like the DMCA). (...) That raises the question of why these countries don't repeal their versions of the DMCA. > The answer is tariffs, it seems. The US trade representative has long threatened count…

I agree with him that the retaliatory tariffs don't make much sense but equally basically throwing out copyright law would be crazy, as the US would likely respond in kind and it'd probably hurt Europe more in the long run. They should stop the anti-competitive practices that prevent third-party app stores and so on though.

It's not advocating throwing out copyright; it's advocating killing the laws enabling DRM. Imagine!

No laws against removing the region lock on your DVD player.

No laws against fixing your tractor with 3rd party parts.

When Amazon deletes Nineteen Eighty-Four from your Kindle, you can put it right back.

When a games company "turns off" the game you bought, turn it right back on again.

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#55

Post by cebert »

For the “Uber of Nursing” example, if employers want to play games like this, the best way to combat it is with symmetrical information. Employees should share their salary offers on a website, which would empower them to get a better sense of whether they are being paid fairly.

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#56

Post by bambax »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #45
bambax wrote: post #27

The article is very long; that part is fascinating and a fantastic suggestion: > Europe and Canada have passed strong right-to-repair legislation, but those efforts ""have been hamstrung by the anti-circumvention laws"" (like the DMCA). (...) That raises the question of why these countries don't repeal their versions of the DMCA. > The answer is tariffs, it seems. The US trade representative has long threatened count…

I agree with him that the retaliatory tariffs don't make much sense but equally basically throwing out copyright law would be crazy, as the US would likely respond in kind and it'd probably hurt Europe more in the long run. They should stop the anti-competitive practices that prevent third-party app stores and so on though.

Anti-circumvention laws are not the same thing as copyright. Not in the least. And it's very debatable that copyright should be used for tractors, for example.

If you invent a new engine you can patent it. But if you make an engine that works like any other engine, why should society help you prevent your customers from tinkering with it?

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#57

Post by isodev »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #45
bambax wrote: post #27

The article is very long; that part is fascinating and a fantastic suggestion: > Europe and Canada have passed strong right-to-repair legislation, but those efforts ""have been hamstrung by the anti-circumvention laws"" (like the DMCA). (...) That raises the question of why these countries don't repeal their versions of the DMCA. > The answer is tariffs, it seems. The US trade representative has long threatened count…

I agree with him that the retaliatory tariffs don't make much sense but equally basically throwing out copyright law would be crazy, as the US would likely respond in kind and it'd probably hurt Europe more in the long run. They should stop the anti-competitive practices that prevent third-party app stores and so on though.

> basically throwing out copyright law would be crazy

Slightly off topic, but aren't we in the process of "throwing out copyright law" for the purposes of LLMs a.k.a the "automated" version of enshitification anyway? We've stretched "fair use" so much already, it won't be too big of a challenge to fit reverse engineering (removing DRM) into it.

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#58

Post by sneak »

whinvik wrote: post #8

> In particular, the companies purchase financial information from a data broker before offering a nurse a shift; if the nurse is carrying a lot of credit-card debt, especially if some of that is delinquent, the amount offered is reduced. "Because, the more desperate you are, the less you'll accept to come into work and do that grunt work of caring for the sick, the elderly, and the dying." I think this should be mad…

Why should it be illegal?

Seems to me that the illegal part would be the cartel of the 3 apps that cornered the whole market.

An app that doesn’t do this could eat their lunch.

Nurses work at hospitals, the supply of which is constrained artificially by the state, so once you sell all of the ones in a region on your app, you have a monopoly. It is a type of regulatory capture.

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#59

Post by Mindwipe »

bambax wrote: post #27

The article is very long; that part is fascinating and a fantastic suggestion: > Europe and Canada have passed strong right-to-repair legislation, but those efforts ""have been hamstrung by the anti-circumvention laws"" (like the DMCA). (...) That raises the question of why these countries don't repeal their versions of the DMCA. > The answer is tariffs, it seems. The US trade representative has long threatened count…

> That raises the question of why these countries don't repeal their versions of the DMCA. > The answer is tariffs, it seems.

No it isn't.

Like literally, the US and it's tariff madness has literally nothing to do with it. The EU and Canada are both signatories to the WIPO Copyright Treaty, and signatories of the WTO provisions that include continued operation to it. They are international treaties with a wide degree of international support, not US inventions. Christ, Europe had a lot more to do with the wording of the anticircumvention provisions in the WIPO treaty than the US did.

People should stop taking Doctorow seriously. He has a long track record of making shit up that is what his audience wants to hear.

Re: Cory Doctorow on how we lost the internet

#60

Post by Mindwipe »

like_any_other wrote: post #52
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with him that the retaliatory tariffs don't make much sense but equally basically throwing out copyright law would be crazy, as the US would likely respond in kind and it'd probably hurt Europe more in the long run. They should stop the anti-competitive practices that prevent third-party app stores and so on though.

Getting rid of circumvention and reverse-engineering bans is not remotely "copyright law". It is restoring basic ownership rights to our own property.

You would effectively have to exit all international copyright law treaties to do so, which is defacto removing any international recognition of copyright for works from your country.
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