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Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

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Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly speaking most have been arrested on immigration-related charges but been targeted for prosecution due to criticizing israel. This is bad and a large step in the wrong direction but it's markedly less bad than the "hate speech" laws of Britain and many european countries.

The laws may be different but the result is identical. JD Vance should look at the bible he likes to tout. "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"

Vance isn't running policy. He is the vice president.

Many people are arrested every day. Some are for justified reasons and some are not. "The result is identical." Intent and rationale matter.

Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#52

Whatsapp messages? It's pretty crucial to find out how these ended up with the police. Did these people send Whatsapp messages to someone who didn't like the messages and this person then went to the police? In that case, it's back to the article and lack of definition within these laws. If, however, the police got the whatsapp messages via some kind of mass-surveillance programme, then we have a big problem...

It's always amusing to hear the proponents of E2E who are completely ignore xkcd/538

Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#53

It's strange that all four examples in the article are people with commonly objectionable right-wing views when the UK has sent arresting officers to people on the basis of online comments across the political spectrum in the last couple years. It isn't merely a partisan issue where a group that are easily written off as racists receive heavy-handed justice, the police have intermittently targeted every view away fro…

Perhaps it's because the most powerful voices criticizing restrictions on speech in the UK are coming from the "right", e.g. Musk, Farage, Robinson, etc.

These claim that their views would be more widely accepted if it were not for restrictions on freedom of speech.

Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British police don't look to discriminate in their application of the law. If the British-right feel more entitled to free speech, then they will naturally perceive the brunt of the law directed at them.

It reads as legitimately insane that someone is saying in a critical way someone "feels more entitled to free speech" as a justification. I think this is just a basic values disagreement and wouldn't care to live in a country where people who don't believe in that freedom can vote or hold political weight.

Oh it is not a justification, just the logical explanation of what was suggested with regard to the British-right potentially being targeted. I don't even feel that anyone in particular is being targeted.

Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#55
post #10

Pretty sure the police aren't enacting the laws they are obligated to enforce, the government is the ones doing that.

Yes, bad laws that are open to interpretation, perhaps as designed. But the police have a lot of discretion and it's much easier to go after someone for an obnoxious tweet or supposed offense than it is to go after real crimes. We always hear "lessons will be learned" after the fact, again and again, but they don't seem to be.

"it's much easier to go after someone for an obnoxious tweet".

That is a very good point. The evidence is right there literally in black and white.

And they can easily get there conviction rates up, which probably matters.

Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#59
I feel like this article makes a very poor argument for what should be an easy win.

I think the uk needs much more freedom of speech, both at a legal level and culturally (I am a Brit)

But the articles arguments are weak:

Someone calling for violent disorder during a riot probably should face prosecution. The fact the US constitution might protect such speech is irrelevant.

Similarly you can make a good argument that incitement of racial (religious etc) hatred should not be protected either. If you want to critique Islam or Israel go for it. But calling all Muslims or Jews or all women or gays or whatever other group names is likely to cause arguments and disturb the peace.

The article also focuses way too much on the USAs approach. This seems to me to have failed: on one hand the us is knee deep in conspiracy theories and far right rhetoric, and on the other people self censor endlessly (or face the consequences on an arbitrary and capricious basis).

If you’re going to argue for free speech, do it based on the inherent dangers of letting any one group decide what is banned, do it on the necessity of having clear quick communication of social changes and do it on the basis of the fastest correction of error. Not “because someone wrote down congress shall pass no law” and then a long list of judge’s arbitrarily decided what that did or didn’t protect over the next 200 years.

Re: Britain's police are restricting speech in worrying ways

#60

[flagged]

Two journalists criticised how their daughter's primary school handled her disabilities and were arrested for it, ostensibly on the grounds that their doing so was harassment and was grossly offensive, and you think this isn't worrying, isn't arbitrary, and doesn't hint that the standards set out in those laws are vague?

Here's a BBC article on the case. Obviously 1) there was more to this than just a few posts on Whatsapp, and 2) the situation did get out of control for a brief while and the police were called. Probably similar to common "affray" or public disorder cases.

>The school said it had "sought advice from police" after a "high volume of direct correspondence and public social media posts" that it said had become upsetting for staff, parents and governors.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9dj1zlvxglo

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