Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why old games never die, but new ones do

pleromanonx86.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 335 posts

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#51

Post by secstate »

gmuslera wrote: post #5
mattnewton wrote: post #2

The article kinda dances around this point, but I think the largest reason "old games never die" is simply the old games mentioned were the good ones of their generation. Similar to the lindy effect[0] where shows that had been around a while were likely to stay around a while longer. The are the games good enough for people to host fan servers and make mods, and behind each good game there is a lot of forgotten stuf…

I would put focus in the survivorship bias too. He is looking and the survivors, and trying to figure out why they survived, and not the ones that didn't make it and could had some the same strengths, but still are not around anymore (and not even counted as "old games"). You have MAME and other console emulators with thousands of games, but how much of them are present on today's culture?

I think you missed the point. This isn't about which games we culturally care to keep. It's that even beloved games from 10 years ago are effectively gone to use because there's no way to break the DRM or resurrect live services to phone home to.

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#52

Post by BlueTemplar »

> the great GameSpy shutdown, in which mountains of games lost online connectivity

No, they didn't. They 'just' lost a form of (semi-automatic) matchmaking : these server lists.

"LAN mode" is a related misnomer : a better term is the also used "Direct IP connect". Even after GameSpy shut down, you can still play these games online through this "LAN mode". You 'just' need to do the matchmaking yourself. The likes of Hamachi and GameRanger 'just' make the connecting and matchmaking easier.

It's particularly sad to see this mode (which is required internally anyway !) getting removed from games using "we added Steam MP" as an excuse. (Like for Dawn of War 1.) What if Steam and non-Steam players want to play together ? More importantly, what happens once the Steam MP servers are inevitably shut down ? Now you will be able to talk about "lost online connectivity" !

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#53

Post by mabster »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #32
charcircuit wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just like how arcade gaming died in favor of “redemption games” There are still a lot of racing and rhythm games at arcades.

This is probably a regional thing, but in my experience they're in decline. The arcades near me, which have all opened within the last 5 years typically have one car racing game, maybe one motorcycle game, one dance game, and the other 50 or so games are just slot machines for kids.

In Australia we used to have a few arcades dotted around the place but I haven't walked past one in a long time. But whenever I go to Japan I'm amazed at how vibrant their arcade scene is. It seems much more communal as well - go hang out at the arcade with your friends.

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#54

Post by BlueTemplar »

joshvm wrote: post #12

AMD recently annoyed the gaming community - who are among the most susceptible to unnecessary upgraditis - by saying that friends don't let friends buy GPUs with more than 8GB VRAM. If you look at the Steam hardware surveys, that's probably true. An M-series Macbook can play most stuff that isn't current AAA. Proton let's you play virtually anything on Linux and it's incredible (plus the Steam Deck). There's no point…

Wait, what are you talking about ?

Because AMD also recently announced the cheapest (?) new midrange GPU with 16 Go of VRAM :

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/amds-radeon-rx-9060-xt-want...

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#55

Post by johnb231 »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #54
joshvm wrote: post #12

AMD recently annoyed the gaming community - who are among the most susceptible to unnecessary upgraditis - by saying that friends don't let friends buy GPUs with more than 8GB VRAM. If you look at the Steam hardware surveys, that's probably true. An M-series Macbook can play most stuff that isn't current AAA. Proton let's you play virtually anything on Linux and it's incredible (plus the Steam Deck). There's no point…

Wait, what are you talking about ? Because AMD also recently announced the cheapest (?) new midrange GPU with 16 Go of VRAM : https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/amds-radeon-rx-9060-xt-want...

That's right. No one is "annoyed". AMD has the best value 16 GB GPUs on the market.

There is an 8GB version of the 9060. Perfectly suitable option for the majority of gamers around the world.

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#56

Post by margalabargala »

ofcourseyoudo wrote: post #25

"Far more people are playing UT99 than in the past as you just need to download it there and play it." This is laughably untrue. But mostly this article just says "old good games are old and good". It's nice that they run on anything, but comparing the current slate of new-ish games against... the entire history of PC gaming, I actually think new games are doing just fine: - Fortnite - Apex Legends - Valorant - Overw…

Several of the games in your list are well over a decade old. How old is too old to be "new"?

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#57

Post by Discordian93 »

Spivak wrote: post #49
CrossVR wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the obscure forgotten stuff is still playable if you kept a copy of the disc. Those games didn't need a community to preserve them, because they were not designed to be ephemeral like live service games.

Like for example you can play every GameCube game that was ever released for the system. There's readily available archives you can download and well-known console mods available to play them. This kind of thing just isn't possible for newer games. Self-contained, offline, drm free (or at least breakable drm) will probably be immortal but that's a shrinking segment of games.

You can't play Phantasy Star Online for the GameCube anymore.

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#58

Post by ndriscoll »

unclad5968 wrote: post #33
Buttons840 wrote: post #4

We're lacking a middle ground in copyright law that would allow people to play Mario Bros 3 on the NES for free, but doesn't give everyone the right to use the Mario IP, or to resell it en masse. (It's only possible right now because of incomplete law enforcement.) The purpose of copyright is to encourage creation, but rent-seeking on a decades old game is not it. Copyright and patents encourage creation and inventio…

Why should everyone have the right to play NES games for free?

Incorrect question. The correct question is assuming people are willing to share those old games for free (they are), why should we grant someone the right to stop them? Why should we grant people the right to block the creation of derivatives of 40 year old works?

These things don't even have economic value. E.g. excitebike was in the top 10 best selling NES games. How much would you pay as an investor today for global distribution rights?

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#59

Post by lesser23 »

unclad5968 wrote: post #33
Buttons840 wrote: post #4

We're lacking a middle ground in copyright law that would allow people to play Mario Bros 3 on the NES for free, but doesn't give everyone the right to use the Mario IP, or to resell it en masse. (It's only possible right now because of incomplete law enforcement.) The purpose of copyright is to encourage creation, but rent-seeking on a decades old game is not it. Copyright and patents encourage creation and inventio…

Why should everyone have the right to play NES games for free?

Why shouldn’t old art be permitted into the public domain to encourage improvement and innovation?

Draconian Mickey Mouse copyright law has likely stifled more innovation that we could possibly imagine. Much like patent law there should be a strict, non-renewable period where a company can recoup their cost and make profit. Then it is introduced to the public domain.

Not “allowing people to play NES games for free” is rent seeking, innovation stifling behavior that extends far beyond simple NES games.

Further, why shouldn’t I be allowed to share a game I rightfully own? If I do not own it, then I lease it. If I was not made aware of that then it is fraud. The ethics are simple: When buying is not owning, piracy is not theft. Simple as that.

Re: Why old games never die, but new ones do

#60

Post by vitehozonage »

mattnewton wrote: post #2

The article kinda dances around this point, but I think the largest reason "old games never die" is simply the old games mentioned were the good ones of their generation. Similar to the lindy effect[0] where shows that had been around a while were likely to stay around a while longer. The are the games good enough for people to host fan servers and make mods, and behind each good game there is a lot of forgotten stuf…

Culture and creativity is simply in decline because money has corrupted everything. "The old games mentioned were the good ones of their generation" is sounds convincing but I don't think it hits the point.

It's no different than all other fields. Planned obsolescence is a real thing and has lead to the collapse in quality for everything. Games are also designed by C-suite and committees to target some juicy statistical player-base. Because it's all about profit, not art or quality. It's not a small team trying to make something they think is fun anymore. It's a type of enshittification.

Indie games are a shining ray of hope of course that the culture can change.

Just today there was a new article that shows this:

>That devotion to their chosen genre, in EA's eyes, meant that "you didn't have to worry" about the nerds. "You didn't have to try and appeal to them. You had to worry about the people who weren't in the cave, which was the audience we actually wanted, which was much larger."

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/dragon-age/dragon-age-maest...

Post reply on HN